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0:01 | si

0:50 | today

0:58 | and

1:32 | p

2:10 | yes

2:42 | , good morning,

3:00 | cleanliness

3:45 | , they are sitting straight, straight,

4:27 | students from the state university,

4:58 | good

5:19 | morning, good morning, God, good morning, poam ser,

5:25 | I

5:40 | bow

6:27 | low ,

6:46 | It’s high time 3 minutes, so

6:53 | I’m opening the meeting

7:20 | without standing

7:32 | . Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. In our group, it’s a little higher, but it only

7:38 | shows that they have supervision over us. Hello, students from the State Academy of Applied Sciences in Włocławek, who were invited by Mr. Krystian Łuczak.

7:46 | Best regards, and here they are. students are also with us and I understand that at least a fragment of the pedagogical body from the primary school n

7:56 | 353 IMI of the great Explorers wi very warmly We are glad that

8:03 | they wanted to visit us as secretaries of today’s sessions, appoints MPs Weronika smarduch Krzysztof cieci Robert gontar and Mirosław Adam

8:13 | orliński, in the first part of the session the secretary will be deputies Robert garz and

8:19 | Mirosław Adam Orliński, the minutes and the list of speakers will be kept by deputies Weronika smarduch and Robert garz Good morning, Mr. MP,

8:31 | I consider the minutes of the 9th session of the Sejm to be accepted Ladies and Gentlemen, the Prosecutor

8:37 | General of the Republic of Poland has submitted a request to supplement the agenda O An item including information on the total number of people for

8:46 | which a request was submitted to order control and recording of conversations or a request to order operational control in

8:53 | 2023, this is road number 308, therefore, after obtaining the consent of

8:59 | the seniors’ convention, I decided to add this information to the agenda. The Council of Ministers submitted a draft act on amending the Act on

9:08 | the exchange of tax information with other countries and certain other acts, form number 311, in connection with this Pursuant to

9:16 | Article 95b of the Rules of Procedure of the Sejm, I decided to supplement the agenda with an item covering the first reading of this bill

9:25 | , the Committee on National Ethnic Minorities, on the parliamentary bill on amending the Act on national and

9:33 | ethnic minorities and the regional language and certain other acts This is form number 289, therefore, after obtaining

9:41 | the unanimous opinion of the seniors’ convention, I decided to supplement the agenda with an item covering the consideration of this report, which will

9:49 | take place today Commission Social Policy and Family submitted a report on the government draft act amending the act on

9:57 | family support and care system

10:02 | on employment promotion and labor market institutions road number 312, therefore, after obtaining the unanimous opinion of the seniors’ convention,

10:10 | I decided to supplement the agenda with an item covering the consideration of this report I propose that in this case the Sejm consents

10:18 | to shortening the deadline referred to in Article 44, paragraph 3 of the Rules of Procedure of the Sejm.

10:23 | If I hear no objections, I will consider that the Sejm has accepted the proposal. I do not hear any objections. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Presidium of the Sejm proposes that the Sejm hold a

10:33 | mid-term debate on the information from the Minister of Foreign Affairs on the tasks of Polish foreign policy in 2024 tomorrow,

10:43 | the Sejm Presidium also proposes that the Sejm listen to 15 minutes of statements on behalf of the clubs and five-minute statements on behalf of the clubs in a joint discussion in the first

10:52 | readings of two bills regarding the Constitutional Tribunal 10 minutes of statements on behalf of the clubs five-minute statements

11:00 | on behalf of the group in discussions on the information from the Prosecutor General of the Republic of Poland on the total number of people against whom

11:08 | a request was submitted to order control and recording of conversations or a request to order operational control in 2023 over the citizens’ draft

11:16 | act on amending the Penal Code and also over the citizens’ draft act on the protection of property in the Republic of Poland against claims regarding

11:25 | heirless property these last two projects These are the last two civic projects – we inherited them from the previous

11:32 | term of office of the Sejm and at this session we will read as well as the draft one-minute statements on behalf of the clubs and three-minute statements on behalf

11:40 | of the group in discussions on the remaining items of the agenda. If I hear no objections, I will consider that the Sejm has accepted the proposal. If there is an objection,

11:51 | we will decide the matter, so we will vote on the proposal of the Sejm presidium and now

12:02 | I have to read it to you again in Due to the reported objection, which of the Members of Parliament is in favor of accepting the proposal of the Sejm Presidium to listen to

12:11 | a mid-term debate on the information from the Minister of Foreign Affairs on the tasks of Polish foreign policy in 2024? 15-minute statements on behalf of the clubs and

12:20 | a five-minute statement on behalf of the group in the joint discussion in the first readings of two draft laws regarding the Constitutional Tribunal, as

12:28 | well as these statements on behalf of the clubs and five-minute statements on behalf of the club in discussions on the information from the Prosecutor General on the total

12:36 | number of people to whom a request to order control over the recording of conversations or a request to order operational control in 2023

12:45 | over the citizens’ bill amending the Penal Code and also on the citizens’ bill on the protection of property in the Republic of Poland

12:53 | against claims regarding a heirless name and five-minute statements on behalf of clubs and TR one-minute statements on behalf of the club in

13:01 | discussions on the remaining items of the agenda would like to raise your hand and press

13:10 | button Who is

13:18 | against who abstained

13:30 | the MP already has a card I am waiting for all MPs who report this kind of problems My

13:37 | heart is absolutely Where is the Minister

13:46 | Thank you 374 MPs voted for 193 against 168 abstained 13 st propc

13:59 | rozen at the current information meeting on the matter the conditions of the circumstances of the adoption of the course of negotiations and the foreseeable effects of the European

14:09 | Green Deal which the Confederation MPs’ Club requests to present. The items

14:14 | on the agenda of the current meeting will be considered in the order in which the opinion of the Sejm Presidium and the Seniors’ Convention has been given, information on this matter and

14:24 | the schedule of planned meetings of the MPs’ teams, as well as a list of Acts which the Senate are available in the

14:32 | Sejm information system, I would like to draw your attention to the change that has just taken place in

14:37 | the preliminary schedule of the Sejm sessions, so we will have a block of votes on Friday at 10:00 at the beginning of our proceedings, and not as we had in

14:45 | this preliminary time around 1 p.m. :00 so the deliberations are on Friday We start at 10:00 and immediately start with a block of votes. Now, I would like to ask the MP Secretary

14:55 | to read the announcements. Dear Members of the Administration and Internal Affairs Committee, 11 a.m., European Union Affairs,

15:05 | 11 a.m., public finances, public finances,

15:10 | together with the Foreign Affairs Committee, 11 a.m. Environmental protection of natural resources and forestry 11 a.m. local government and

15:18 | regional policy 11 a.m. legislative 11 a.m. Maritime Economy,

15:24 | inland navigation 12 p.m. Physical culture, sport, tourism

15:29 | Administration and Internal Affairs together with the committee for energy, climate and state assets 4 p.m. for state control 4 p.m.

15:38 | economy and development, together with the social policy and family committee, 4 p.m., communications with Poles abroad, 4 p.m., National Defense, 4 p.m.,

15:48 | Agriculture and Rural Development, 4 p.m., energy, climate, and state assets, jointly with the public finance committee, 5 p.m., local government,

15:57 | 6 p.m., and Foreign Affairs, 6 p.m. 18

16:04 | thank you, thank you very much, time for formal motions, MP Jarosław Sachajko

16:10 | Kukis 15

16:21 | You are welcome, Mr. Speaker of the most numerous

16:26 | Sejm in 56 years. It is not true, Mr. MP, we have so many expired mandates that it is not the

16:33 | most numerous, Mr. Absent Prime Minister, the most numerous government in 106 years

16:40 | has been achieved, Mr.

16:50 | Prime Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen of the absentee. Prime Minister, I said that 100%

16:57 | of the chairmen of your investigative committees have reached the depths of rudeness,

17:03 | arrogance and primitivism, going so far as to make vulgar insinuations and

17:10 | insulting your witnesses, your committees look like a clan court, I appeal to

17:16 | the absent Prime Minister to calm down the Polish-Polish disputes over the eastern

17:24 | abroad, we have a war on the western border, an order that will ruin our economy,

17:31 | I am submitting a formal request for a break, the Prime Minister’s information on

17:38 | increases in electricity prices, increases in water prices, sewage and information when there will be

17:45 | petrol after 51, this is information that interests Poles, not cheap tricks on

17:57 | committees, Mr. I understand that you submitted a request for information from the government, such a request can be submitted in accordance with the regulations until

18:08 | 9 p.m. on the previous day if you are in the appropriate queue to submit a request for such information, as is now done, for example, by the

18:17 | Konfederacja club, the second request was Mr. Wawer from the Confederation

18:26 | Please, there was a motion for a break yes yes yes and well, it will be voted on in a moment,

18:31 | there can certainly be no doubt that all motions by MP Sahaj will be

18:37 | voted on, Mr. Marshal. This week, we heard from the Chairman of the Supervisory Board of the central communication port from the Chairman of the Supervisory Board of the central communication port

18:47 | that the component the railway CPK, which is already designed, is practically in the process of implementation, will be liquidated and withdrawn to the conceptual stage, where

18:58 | the CPK government will only think about it, the CPK company will only consider what this component should look like, this means several years of delay in the implementation of the CPK,

19:07 | it means billions of losses for the Polish economy and means that it will

19:12 | probably be the first step to the liquidation of the airport project as well, because why do we need an airport in Baranów if we will not have tracks leading to this

19:20 | airport, we will probably hear such an argument. In a few weeks or months, I will hear from you, Mr. Marshal, with a

19:30 | formal motion to adjourn the meeting and to call on the minister to ask the minister that if

19:36 | he does not appear in the media or at public debates, he should appear before the Sejm and explain why and on whose behalf he is sabotaging

19:45 | the central communication port project. Thank you very much, Mr. MP, for this motion too they will vote in a moment,

20:07 | Mr. Speaker, Honorable Members, there is no bill that

20:12 | has not been increased in the last few months. Poles have one

20:18 | water left, but it turns out that Mr. Dariusz Klimczak wants to free water prices and water prices will also go up by several dozen percent, Mr. Speaker

20:27 | . The government has been closed for 68 days. Please rise to the challenge of

20:34 | calling for price increases that will inevitably be directed at Poles. Mrs. Henik

20:39 | Kloska has written an act on electricity prices, freezing electricity prices. Attention, who will benefit?

20:45 | Owners of villas with a swimming pool. Only they will be able to count on the reduction. Ladies and gentlemen. Get your act together. to work anyway. Organize work so that any

20:54 | increase is at least minimized, because at the moment, several dozen percent increases await each of

21:02 | us from July and in the following months. Thank you very much, Mr. Mr. Buda did not submit a formal request, it was just

21:09 | a political demand, a political demand, that the Seniors’ Convention should not that the Convention Seniors, Mr. Minister, only I

21:19 | will finish and I will let you in a moment, Mr. Minister Klimczak, please look into my eyes, Mr. Minister, 24/7,

21:29 | Mr. Minister, Mr. MP. The Convention of Seniors, as you know, has

21:35 | slightly different tasks for your information. Today, at the presidium of the Sejm, I decided to send a package of 10, I think State

21:44 | Acts I gave them the numbers of most of them because two of them still require some formal additions I would like to praise the impressive

21:53 | legislative momentum there and there is a great deal there and a reduction in the amount of free benefits dool

21:59 | in total the cost of these laws is about PLN 100 billion I am very happy I am very

22:04 | glad that so You got down to work hard. It’s a pity that when you joined the opposition, but to be clear, all

22:13 | your projects and proposals are treated seriously, form numbers, consultations, everything is going as it should, Minister Klimczak wanted

22:22 | to speak under Article 186. Please, Dariusz Klimczak, Minister

22:27 | infrastructure Thank you, Mr. Marshal, very briefly, Mr. If we are to meet again this year on a pilgrimage in Częstochowa, please just

22:35 | don’t lie, the government does not anticipate any water increases, we are planning decentralized water and you are the last person who will lie

22:45 | Poles will not expect any water increases and you should stop lying Thank you

22:53 | very much, I understand, Mr. Klimczak, that you were misunderstood by Minister Klimczak and now you want to explain where it took place, a simple

23:03 | situation on the example of Łódź has requested Polish waters for a 60% increase in water prices over the last three years. If Polish waters do not

23:12 | make decisions on water price increases, local governments will increase water prices by several dozen percent after the elections and you

23:20 | know it well. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen in the session. formal motions and

23:25 | political demands were submitted two de facto WOS formal

23:31 | I will be the first to adjourn the session I will put it to the vote now we are going to vote who among the MPs is in favor of ordering a break in

23:38 | the session at this time I would like to raise your hand and press the button Who is

23:45 | against who abstained Thank you

23:53 | , 393 deputies voted,

24:00 | no one will abstain, I declare that the request for a break was rejected as the second vote, the formal request to adjourn the meeting, let’s start voting,

24:09 | who among the deputies is in favor of adjourning the meeting, would like to raise your hand and press the button Who is

24:19 | against, who abstained,

24:27 | thank you, three deputies for 189 against 204 no one abstained I declare that

24:33 | the Sejm rejected the motion, therefore we will proceed to consider the first item of the agenda – this is the report of the Administration and

24:42 | Internal Affairs Committee and the Committee for Climate Energy and State Assets on the government’s bill amending certain Acts related to

24:50 | the functioning of government administration, these are forms number 269, 269a and 292

25:00 | Ladies and Gentlemen who go to committee meetings, I would like to ask you to speed up this process and in about a minute I will ask MP

25:09 | Zofia Czernow to present

25:20 | the committee’s

25:43 | report, it is from

26:27 | C

26:33 | you

27:12 | I would like to ask you to silence the conversations and I invite MP Zofia Czernow to

27:19 | present the report, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to ask you to allow

27:24 | me to speak and to silence

27:49 | the talks. Once again, I am asking all MPs who

27:54 | have other duties to skip

28:00 | the possible speech of MP Zof Cern.

28:06 | I am asking you, Gentlemen, MPs. I am asking you,

28:12 | High Marshal of the Sejm. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have the honor to present

28:19 | the report of the joint committees for energy, climate and

28:29 | regarding the government draft act amending certain acts related to the functioning of government administration, at

28:39 | the meeting on April 10 this year, the joint committees held the first reading and

28:45 | then considered in detail the draft act amending certain acts

28:50 | related to functioning of the government administration roads 269

28:58 | government rights to the draft road act 269a the government draft bill aims to improve the implementation of tasks

29:08 | performed by the government administration and adapt the scope of activities

29:14 | of individual ministries to the strategy of action adopted by Donald Tusk’s government

29:19 | optimizing the structures of the functioning of the government administration and adapting its income challenges

29:30 | the draft also provides for changes in the competence provisions in some departments of government administration, some of the tasks currently concentrated on the Prime

29:41 | Minister will be transferred to the appropriate Ministers, which will increase

29:47 | the competences of these ministers and improve the

29:52 | decision-making process, and so the minister responsible for foreign affairs,

29:58 | aid to the Polish diaspora and Poles abroad, the minister responsible for internal affairs

30:04 | will take over tasks related to the supervision of the government’s

30:10 | strategic reserves agency, the minister responsible for public finance will take over supervision of the Polish economic institute, supervision of the funds,

30:20 | the reprivatization fund, the capital investment fund,

30:25 | the Covid-19 counteracting fund and the aid fund will be taken over by the Ministers

30:31 | responsible for individual departments of government administration, some of the minister’s current tasks will be taken over responsible for

30:40 | social security will be transferred to the newly appointed ministers i

30:46 | yes, the minister for equality will take over tasks related to counteracting

30:52 | domestic violence, and the minister for senior policy

31:03 | will take over the tasks of the central communication port to the minister responsible for transport, from the minister responsible for

31:13 | regional development, tasks in the field of assistance to the Polish diaspora and Poles abroad

31:18 | are currently implemented by three centers: the senate

31:24 | the Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland, the Minister

31:29 | of Foreign Affairs, the committees accepted the government’s argument that all tasks

31:34 | in this field carried out by the Prime Minister should be transferred to the minister

31:39 | responsible for Foreign Affairs, who, together with the Senate of the Republic of Poland,

31:45 | will carry out tasks in this area, the possibility

31:51 | of the director general of the service to issue foreign orders to carry out inspections in facilities are currently not possible after the changes made in

32:01 | 2021. And it is often necessary. The system of operation of strategic reserves and the government agency of strategic reserves

32:10 | in force since 2020 is based on the centralization of all tasks at the Prime

32:20 | Minister. The government project introduces significant

32:26 | systemic changes in In this regard, the minister responsible for

32:31 | Internal Affairs is entrusted with the supervision of the agency and the implementation of all tasks

32:38 | related to the operation of the agency and reserve resources.

32:45 | The strategic bill also introduces important changes in government administration departments, energy, economy, mineral deposits management and

32:56 | climate. The current name of the mineral deposits management section is changed

33:02 | to management of energy raw materials This results directly from

33:09 | the inclusion in the management of mineral deposits section of issues related to natural gas and other fuels, the competences of the minister for

33:21 | the management of energy raw materials will include tasks related to the development of energy, the hydrogen economy,

33:31 | this will facilitate the transformation of the Polish economy towards a climate-neutral direction, it is proposed to transfer from the economy section to

33:41 | the climate section, issues related to energy Prosumer and distributed energy

33:49 | This will allow for the improvement of activities in the development of renewable

33:54 | energy sources Distributed energy is an integral part of issues related to

34:01 | renewable energy and renewable energy sources The government’s self-amendment aims to

34:08 | define the tasks within the climate section for climate neutrality

34:14 | , in particular with the use of hydrogen technology of biocomponents and

34:20 | liquid fuels, the competence of the minister responsible for climate will be to issue a regulation

34:28 | on renewable energy sources regulating the requirements in the field of

34:33 | renewable hydrogen, because this regulation is a key tool to support

34:39 | the development of hydrogen from renewable sources, which will allow achieving the set targets.

34:46 | energy transformation objectives , the entry into force of the proposed Act will not result in an increase in expenditure or a reduction in

34:55 | income of local government units

35:00 | in relation to the amounts resulting from the applicable regulations, the organizational and functional changes made will be implemented within the framework of the existing

35:10 | funds at the disposal of the competent authorities, the consequence of the entry

35:16 | into force of the provisions of the proposed Act will be the transfer of funds budget plans

35:22 | planned in the Budget Act for 2024 momentum

35:30 | budget the joint committees have adopted the draft act with amendments, on

35:37 | behalf of the joint committees I am requesting the High House to adopt the draft

35:43 | act Thank you very much, thank you, MP. Let me welcome all the young people

35:54 | from general education who came at the invitation of Minister Czesław Mroczek. We are very

36:03 | pleased to be able to host you. I hope that you will listen carefully to this day

36:11 | and that you will remember this day for a long time. Best regards, I invite you. The Sejm

36:17 | has agreed that during the discussion on this item of the agenda it will listen to a five-minute statement on behalf of the club. The statement from the

36:28 | Os group will be taken by MP Marek Su. Law and Justice Good morning, welcome, Madam Marshal of the Coalition,

36:37 | December 13, eight stars, high parliament, I have the honor to present the position of

36:44 | the Law and Justice club on amending certain Acts related to functioning of government administration and one could say that

36:52 | the title itself doesn’t say much, but the content of this act is very interesting, the justification is

37:01 | that you want to organize the current division structure in

37:08 | government administration, but in fact, if we

37:27 | have mining, energy, what will this division be, or is it that in

37:35 | as part of tidying up what I’m afraid that this tidying up will look like

37:41 | a huge mess, because if you organized the public media with

37:47 | the help of various security agencies and suspicious law firms

37:53 | that cooperated with Russian operators Well, I’m afraid that if you organize it like this, it will simply be a big

38:02 | chaos and a mess, but perhaps the point is to weaken Poland, to destabilize Poland

38:25 | , also on the website of the Szj, there is a certain

38:31 | provision that says that now the president will have to inform the European Commission about

38:37 | the reasons for refusing to grant the applicant a license through our various

38:46 | institutions. So if now some foreign company will want to build

38:51 | windmills And there will be objections from citizens because you want to build windmills in people’s gardens So you will have to

39:00 | explain to the European Commission why the Polish society does not want this happiness funded by the European Union in the Green Deal, this is

39:08 | one thing that shows that you are building simply no more serfdom, simply

39:14 | complete incapacitation of Poland, because even if we don’t like something, we will have to explain a lot to the EU, but this can be

39:23 | said to be one of the ideas outlined here. The second thing is

39:29 | the transfer from the ken to the ministries, i.e. from the prime minister who he is not hard

39:36 | -working, in fact, most of the tasks assigned to the ministries. For example,

39:41 | CPK, also the transfer from the Ministry of Transport to the Ministry of Development. All

39:48 | other things that were at the Prime Minister’s office will now be scattered in various places, it

39:54 | will be a mess, you call it, but you have everything that is called. Even

40:01 | nicely as a consequence. ends disastrously, but when

40:08 | it comes to changes in departments, there is also one change that

40:13 | raises the most controversy, that is, the creation of a new ministry for the left, the

40:21 | left that is building in Poland,

40:28 | Minister Kotula announces through the mouth of Minister Kotula that relationships will be partnerships, I think it’s

40:36 | about homosexual relationships, we still only hear that one issue remains to be agreed, that is, the adoption of children by these unions, and for this lady, a special Ministry is being created

40:47 | that will equalize everyone. We know what this

40:53 | equalization can look like in the European Union, they have that Poland will have justice.

40:58 | Because women, for example, can retire at 5 years earlier than men

41:03 | and this is discrimination I’m afraid that in your implementation this equation will be similar to the thinking in the EU that women will simply raise the retirement age and

41:12 | gay couples will be able to adopt children in their own way,

41:19 | because we know that parents raise children Well as they have their beliefs and it will be no different that Poland will be equal to other countries just like

41:28 | what you announced, the sawing of Catholics and this Ministry will

41:34 | probably have such tasks, that’s why Ladies and Gentlemen, this is an extremely dangerous bill

41:39 | for the functioning of Poland, Polish society, Polish economy and we will be against it Thank you very much Mr. MP, I invite you to

41:48 | take the floor, MP Zdzisław Gawlik, parliamentary club,

41:54 | Civic Coalition, p. Marshal, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber, I had

42:01 | the honor of presenting the position of the Civic Coalition club on

42:07 | the proposed Act amending the Act on certain Acts related to the functioning of government administration covered by Article

42:16 | 269. In fact, I had a completely different idea for

42:21 | your speech, but having simply listened to your speech,

42:28 | which did not deal with the legal act in question, but dealt with something completely different, and by the way, I simply have to refer to certain

42:36 | things that and certain matters that appeared in this speech. Of course, Mr. MP, you can accuse different people of different things and so on, but no one

42:45 | will reverse what happened, for example, in 2016, when, for the

42:51 | there was a need for one desire to take money from one of the companies with the participation of the State Treasury. It happened on September 17, 2015, about gaining certain advantages,

43:02 | you and your colleagues from the East went hand in hand to vote to simply take money. You were united by one thing. Mammon and many people united you.

43:11 | still other cases and talking today about someone simply doing or not doing certain things, let’s just leave it aside, you mention,

43:21 | you are referring to the quality of the proposed legal act to the so-called partition act, I know what you said at the committee, what did

43:29 | you like it, did not like it, for me this explanation related to your question regarding the issue of fossil energy raw materials and so on

43:39 | did not raise any doubts and in my opinion this change is needed and what is

43:46 | significant, I don’t know, improvement in the functioning of the administration since December.

43:51 | Has the allotment act been introduced since November 2015 by the first months it was

43:58 | changed only five times only five times there were such elegant, excellent legal acts

44:04 | and in 8 years you changed this division act only 53 times,

44:10 | this proves the quality of the law then, it was excellent, well-thought-out and so on, unlike what was then the act is

44:20 | well-thought-out even though it covers changes in as many as 60 acts,

44:27 | these changes are logical, these changes are orderly, these changes are orderly,

44:33 | these changes adapt the government administration to the economic and

44:38 | political environment, because it is never given forever, it simply changes and needs to be respond effectively to certain issues that arise, which also

44:48 | optimizes the structure of the functioning of government administration, of course it is tactless for you that certain matters that were accumulated at the level

44:56 | of the Prime Minister are transferred to the level of the relevant Ministers Well, in fact, logically, an attempt at centralization was appropriate for a certain period the fact that

45:06 | you followed the same path and thought that there was an idea for everything in one place, also for the functioning of the administration, these 8 years

45:13 | of operation and October 15 showed that this is not necessarily the best path and way, so a good solution is for these certain matters

45:22 | to be sorted out because makes no sense I don’t think Why, for example, the reprivatization fund was under the minister’s supervision, under the Prime Minister,

45:31 | the capital investment fund under the Prime Minister, the

45:36 | aid fund, also under the Prime Minister’s office, I guess it was only to collect the money that was collected, for example, by the reprivatization fund

45:44 | Sorry, it’s easier to consume them, because the result at the end of the day comes down to this. What are these changes? Do they ensure the continuity

45:53 | of the functioning of the government administration while securing the

45:59 | conduct of ongoing cases, i.e. the safety of the cases carried out under all these regulations? In my opinion, it does not matter. no doubt, in order to

46:06 | clarify and eliminate any doubts surrounding events

46:11 | that may simply arise, on behalf of the club, I am submitting an amendment to this Act provided for in Article 47, point 2, which concerns changes to

46:24 | the Act of January 17, 2019 on the Platform of the Future Foundation to

46:29 | repeal these doubts and possibly doubts that may arise in the future, what happens if during

46:39 | the term of office an event occurs in the form of death or resignation from membership of this

46:45 | foundation, as far as this

46:51 | proposed act is concerned, they are simultaneously implementing certain provisions of the European Union that have not yet been implemented, a certain order

46:59 | needs to be made certain obligations must be fulfilled. There is generally no way out. To sum up, it organizes and systematizes the performance of tasks in

47:08 | the functioning of government administration and we will, of course, support the adoption of this bill with this amendment which I am submitting to the Speaker,

47:16 | thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr.

47:22 | MP, I invite you to take it to the parliamentary club Poland 2050, dear

47:31 | Madam Speaker, in the Sejm, the position of the Poland 2050 club on the government

47:37 | bill amending certain acts related to the functioning of government administration, we are aware of how important it is to properly and

47:44 | well-thought-out management aimed at building a strategy for the development plan and the division of competences and responsibilities aimed at the effective

47:54 | and efficient operation of the Polish state. The division of competences proposed for the project in question will improve, among

48:01 | others, the process of planning the implementation and decision-making in the field of key sectors of government administration departments, including the

48:09 | extremely important for our country, the issue of nuclear energy is the broadly understood management of energy raw materials and fuels.

48:18 | The project in question aims to improve the implementation of tasks related to energy raw materials, fuels and nuclear energy performed by the

48:26 | government administration. Its adoption will organize and improve the division of competences in important areas of

48:32 | government administration activity. The project provides for, among others, among others, systematization of the subject scopes of government administration departments, such as energy, economy,

48:40 | mineral deposits management and climate. The project also provides for changes in competence regulations in some areas of

48:48 | government administration activity. The project assumes that the current tasks of the Prime Minister regarding assistance to the Polish community and Poles abroad will be the Minister

48:58 | of supervision over the government reserves agency. strategic issues will be taken over by the minister responsible for internal affairs, supervision over the Polish economic institute

49:05 | will be taken over by the minister responsible for public finances, the minister responsible for social security, tasks related to

49:13 | counteracting domestic violence will be adopted by the minister for equality, senior policy will be adopted by the minister responsible for senior policy, the minister

49:21 | responsible for development. regional scope regarding the commune headquarters,

49:26 | the minister responsible for transport, the project also assumes the liquidation of the government analysis center, the tasks of which will be carried out by the

49:34 | organizational unit of the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, the change regarding the liquidation

49:39 | of the government analysis center is dictated by the need to streamline and rationalize the government legislative process, tasks assigned to other

49:47 | bodies and entities participating in the government legislative process are sufficient to ensure proper coordination of the activities of the Council of Ministers

49:55 | president admin RD in the scope of preparing analyzes regarding key public policy issues The proposed change concerns

50:05 | the transfer of tasks of the Prime Minister in the scope of supervision over funds – the reprivatization fund – the capital investment fund

50:12 | – the covid-19 counteraction fund and the aid fund of the minister responsible for specific departments of government administration, as a consequence of the WCH, within the scope

50:22 | of competences of the minister for equality in matters of equal treatment, changes are also planned to support

50:30 | the entities of the national cybersecurity system and organizational changes of the foundation are also planned, the industry platform of the future, when introducing

50:39 | the above changes, optimization is recommended structures of the functioning of government administration, while taking into account the need to ensure

50:46 | rational and effective use of official staff, therefore it is assumed that the adoption of competences will take place with the admission of employees

50:54 | responsible for performing individual tasks. An important point included in the submitted project and the proposed amendment

51:01 | is the definition of tasks within the climate section. indicating the achievement of climate neutrality, in particular using

51:09 | hydrogen technology, biocomponents and liquid biofuels, it should be noted that

51:14 | achieving the goals of climate transformation depends on increasing the use of electricity from renewable energy, and

51:21 | the development condition is to ensure the possibility of storing superenergy, in particular hydrogen, hydrogen, biocomponents and biofuels are tools

51:29 | development of a low-emission economy and switching the Energy and Transport sector to green ecological technologies, the importance of the role of hydrogen

51:36 | in the energy transformation results from its versatile properties, which can be a raw material, fuel, carrier or energy storage. Moreover, hydrogen is

51:45 | widely used in the energy, transport and industrial sectors due to locating tasks related to achieving climate neutrality using

51:53 | hydrogen technology in the climate section. It seems necessary to leave the competence of the minister responsible for climate to issue

52:01 | a regulation under Article 62A of the Act on Renewable Energy Sources regulating the requirements for renewable hydrogen due to the need

52:11 | to determine the actual amount of hydrogen renewable energy produced from renewable energy sources transported by means of transport other than gas networks

52:19 | Regulation Specify requirements for measurement, registration and method of calculating the amount of renewable hydrogen The requirements are specified in order to issue

52:29 | guarantees of origin that provide hydrogen recipients with an instrument guaranteeing the right to information about the extent to which the hydrogen supplied comes from

52:37 | renewable sources, this regulation is a key tool to support the development of hydrogen from renewable sources, which will allow achieving the set

52:44 | climate transformation goals. Due to the above proposed changes, the adoption

52:49 | of the project is justified. Thank you very much, Mr. MP. I invite you to speak.

52:55 | Mr. Adam dz parliamentary club will speak. Dear

53:04 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, let’s try to see what these

53:11 | PiS warnings look like. The Act amending certain Acts related to the functioning of government administration is a project that concerns the improvement

53:19 | of the implementation of tasks related to matters related to energy raw materials, fuels, energy and government administration. It is envisaged,

53:27 | among other things, to systematize the scope of the activities of the departments. government administration energy economy minerals economy and climate

53:37 | the project also provides for changes in competence provisions in some areas of government administration activity

53:44 | it is assumed that some of the tasks of the Prime Minister will be taken over by the relevant ministers the changes also concern the transfer of tasks and competences of the Prime Minister in

53:51 | the field of supervision over funds – reprivatization fund – investment fund capital fund for counteracting Covid-19 and a fund

54:00 | for assistance to ministers responsible for a specific section of government administration,

54:05 | changes are also planned to support the subjects of the national cybersecurity system and organizational changes of the foundation platform

54:13 | of the industry of the future, the key change included in the draft act is the expansion of issues falling within the scope of participation in

54:19 | the management of mineral deposits issues regarding natural gas and other fuels that should be treated as raw materials, which will allow greater emphasis to be placed on the development of

54:29 | these sectors of the economy and, consequently, the industry, in order to strengthen the Pro-industrial aspect of the activities of the minister responsible for

54:37 | energy resources management, it is proposed to also transfer issues regarding the development of nuclear energy to his competences as one of

54:45 | the main current economic investments in the country. Moreover, for the same reason, it is proposed to clearly assign to the

54:54 | energy resources management department matters relating to all activities related to the use of low-emission and zero-emission hydrogen in

55:05 | industry. The proposed Act provides for an amendment to the Act of August 8, 1996

55:11 | on Council of Ministers in the scope of liquidation of the government analysis center is dictated by the need to streamline and rationalize the government

55:19 | legislative process, the tasks assigned to other bodies and entities participating in the government legislative process are sufficient to

55:27 | ensure proper coordination of the activities of the Council of Ministers of the Prime Minister and other government administration bodies in the field

55:33 | of preparing analyses. regarding key public policies

55:38 | in the field of assistance to the Polish diaspora and Poles abroad, the project includes changes

55:44 | to public benefit activities and volunteering in the area of assuming some competences of the minister responsible for

55:52 | social security by the minister for equality and modification of tasks in the scope of the function of the national coordinator of the government

55:58 | program for counteracting domestic violence and monitoring team for counteracting domestic violence, changes are planned to the Act on

56:05 | counteracting domestic violence are aimed at transferring tasks related to domestic violence from the competent minister for social security

56:15 | to the competence of the minister for equality, the next changes concern the abolition of the Government Plenipotentiary for Equal Treatment and the transfer of

56:24 | tasks related to the implementation of the principle of equal treatment currently belonging to the Government Plenipotentiary for Equal Treatment to the Minister for

56:32 | Equality, changing the body responsible for senior policy, the draft bill also assumes changes in the supervision of the government

56:41 | agency of strategic reserves, consisting in entrusting the minister responsible for Internal Affairs with supervision of the agency and the implementation of all tasks

56:48 | related to the functioning of the agency and resources of strategic reserves, changes regarding the functioning of the Institute

56:56 | of Economics in the draft act involves transferring the powers of duties currently belonging to the Prime Minister, including those

57:03 | regarding supervision, to the minister responsible for public finances, it is also proposed to introduce provisions that are the consequences of changes

57:11 | regarding the transfer of powers of duties currently belonging to the Prime Minister, another change concerns support for entities of the national

57:19 | cybersecurity system and involves the introduction of new powers for the minister responsible for computerization to support

57:26 | entities of the cybersecurity system. At the same time, the draft provision will enable the minister responsible for computerization

57:33 | to support activities undertaken to increase cybersecurity in key sectors of the economy. The draft act introduces

57:41 | amendments to the Act of December 16, 2016 on the principles of management of state property, consisting in replacing the remuneration of the chairman of the Council for

57:50 | companies and members of the Council with a flat-rate monthly allowance,

57:56 | the Act of May 10, 2018 on the central communication port, are intended to adapt the regulations to the structure of government administration in accordance with the

58:06 | current tasks of the minister responsible for regional development will be taken over by the minister responsible for transport, Mr. MP, the purpose of

58:14 | the proposed regulation is to adapt the structure and tasks of the government administration to the challenges of the priorities of the Council of Ministers arising

58:21 | from the current economic and political environment. When introducing the above changes, the government will simultaneously take into account

58:30 | the need to ensure rational and effective use of the proposed Act, the changes

58:35 | are going in the right direction, gaining the support of the parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the new provisions will introduce an order of competences with

58:44 | a rational division of tasks. Thank you very much, Mr. MP, I invite you to speak.

58:49 | The

58:57 | Act amending certain Acts related to the functioning of government administration does not sound fascinating. the act is

59:05 | technocratic by nature, but it introduces important

59:10 | changes and really shapes the way we manage the country. Even though many of these competences

59:17 | thematically assigned to specific ministries have so far been in the hands of the Prime Minister, it also shows a certain philosophy of governing power and it is good

59:27 | that we are doing it smarter, that is, that we want to actually allocate the right competences and the right tasks and the right money

59:35 | to people in the government who are actually dealing with a given area. For me, two issues are the most important from the perspective of a member of the energy committee

59:45 | and also from a Silesian, this is the issue of concentrating tasks related to

59:50 | the energy transformation in one ministry and a significant part of these tasks in one department, because

59:59 | now these issues of energy, as well as energy resources, including

1:00:05 | nuclear energy, will be concentrated in one place and will be subordinate to the Ministry of

1:00:13 | Industry in Silesia. If we also add the issues of the Silesian transformation fund, we have such a solid and coherent tool

1:00:22 | carrying out the energy transformation not only in Silesia but throughout Poland and this is important because we do

1:00:28 | not have to do dozens of different fragmented policies, but

1:00:33 | we have to have one coherent policy of fair energy transformation that will allow us to reach a point where we have a cheap and certain

1:00:42 | energy green energy and it is not happening at the expense of employees it is not happening at the expense of Polish society it is not happening at the expense of the collapse

1:00:50 | of individual regions that were related to these types of energy or industry which are changing and it is good that this work will be concentrated and it

1:01:01 | seems one of the two fundamental changes when it comes to the second thing I wanted to talk about, Mr. Suski has already

1:01:08 | advertised this change so beautifully that there is not much left for me to do, but the fact is that this bill strengthens the Ministry of Equality

1:01:18 | and that these tasks, for example those related to counteracting violence in

1:01:24 | the family will now be in the Ministry of Equality, also the fact that the function of

1:01:32 | the Government Plenipotentiary for Equal Treatment will actually be raised to a ministerial rank and so it is important because it is

1:01:39 | also an issue of Polish Families, Mr. Suski, and equal and equitable treatment, equal

1:01:45 | treatment of all Polish Families also want children, because I

1:01:51 | hope this will also be regulated, from rainbow families, from same-sex families, they will be able to count on the safety and care of their

1:01:59 | parents and I am glad that these functions are important, functions of counteracting discrimination on the basis of gender due to

1:02:07 | sexual identity, counteracting violence in the family, violence against women have actually been strengthened, raised to a ministerial level and Minister Kotula

1:02:16 | will gain real tools for his very important

1:02:22 | function for Polish society and it is not something that brings Europe to us, it is something that we should do ourselves for the sake of citizens for our citizens so we need an act,

1:02:31 | a law that organizes many aspects of governance, that ends the absurdity that half of the ministerial tasks are with the Prime Minister and

1:02:41 | that gives specific tools to specific ministries in such

1:02:46 | important areas as fair Energy Transformation and Equality, counteracting discrimination, thank you,

1:02:57 | thank you very much, Mr. Włodzimierz Skalik parliamentary club

1:03:06 | Confederation Madam Speaker Honorable Ministers Referring

1:03:14 | on behalf of the Confederation parliamentary club to the government project on

1:03:19 | changes related to the function of the administration,

1:03:26 | Donald Tusk and his coalition are missing a unique opportunity to implement the

1:03:34 | government administration reform and one of his 100 specifics regarding

1:03:40 | the reduction of the number of Ministers I deputy ministers are another example of hypocrisy

1:03:47 | and falsehood of the current ruling coalition, the total coalition rightly criticized

1:03:53 | the government of Mateusz Morawiecki in recent years, it could be

1:03:59 | expected that after taking power, they would focus on reducing

1:04:05 | government administration, bureaucracy and the costs of its operation in the first reading at

1:04:11 | the meeting of the joint committees for energy, climate and state assets and

1:04:17 | the internal affairs administration committee, Minister Maciej Berek, chairman of

1:04:23 | the Standing Committee of the Council of Ministers. Presenting the justification for the act, he indicated its three main sources: first, the Council of Ministers was

1:04:32 | constituted in the composition in which it is commonly known and it must be

1:04:38 | reflected in the tasks assigned to individual ministers.

1:04:43 | there are so many of us and we have to assign something to each of us, this is the main reason for

1:04:50 | this act, the second one reflects the concept of the functioning of the Chancellery of

1:04:55 | Ministers because it is the privilege of each prime minister to arrange the government according to his

1:05:02 | idea, so thanks to Minister

1:05:09 | Berkowicz, the third reason is various changes in competences and

1:05:14 | organization and Dear Mr. and Mrs. Ani not a word or a word of any reflection on

1:05:21 | the misery of this area of the functioning of the state which is the subject of the presented act, which in the past was so often

1:05:31 | criticized by the current government. On the contrary, Minister Berek emphasized that for the first time in

1:05:37 | the history of the Republic of Poland, the rank of constitutional Ministers was assigned to

1:05:43 | the Ministers for Equality and Politics. senior, he did it with such

1:05:48 | pride as if his boss, Prime Minister Tursk, had flown and returned safely from a trip

1:05:54 | to Mars, after all, in the past, these areas were served in previous

1:05:59 | government structures, what once was done by one minister in Tusk’s government will be

1:06:05 | done by three, so we are dealing with Donald Tusk’s Byzantium because his

1:06:10 | the government, according to data from March 2024, consisted of

1:06:16 | 120 people and this was not the end because

1:06:22 | the formation of the Ministry of Industry had not yet been completed, among this group

1:06:27 | there are well over 20 Ministers, it is the largest government among the

1:06:33 | 27 countries of the European Union, which is famous for its love of bureaucracy

1:06:39 | excessively expanded administration Based on data from government websites,

1:06:45 | it can be calculated that the EU average in terms of the number of cabinet members is 17 people below the average there are governments of Cyprus Belgium Austria Czech

1:06:56 | Republic Estonia Lithuania Latvia Germany Slovakia Hungary and Ireland the differences between

1:07:03 | Poland and countries outside the European Union are still larger, for example, the government

1:07:09 | of Switzerland has only seven ministers, the wise

1:07:14 | Swiss decided to limit the number of ministers by making an entry in

1:07:20 | the constitution. So Tusk’s government, taking into account its size, could serve

1:07:26 | almost countries such as Switzerland. The Civic Coalition, being a total

1:07:32 | opposition, was critical of the pathology of the gray zone developed by the Morawiecki government. public finances, they loudly demanded

1:07:41 | the liquidation of many funds created by the government of the so-called united right, which operated outside the control of the parliament, through the mouth of the current

1:07:51 | Minister of Finance, Andrzej Domański, declared

1:07:56 | public, after all, the implementation of the budget outside the Budget Act is a violation of Article

1:08:05 | 219 of the Constitution. What is the actual implementation of the above declarations is clearly shown by the discussed government project on

1:08:14 | amending certain Acts related to the functioning of

1:08:19 | government administration – a specific example of this pathology and gray zone idow which

1:08:26 | was to be eliminated and for 2024 amounts to almost

1:08:33 | PLN 37 billion, as much as 10 years ago was the entire state budget deficit

1:08:41 | Ladies and Gentlemen, Donald Tusk, instead of eliminating the one expanded by Mateusz

1:08:47 | Morawiecki, the system of feeders only corrects their arrangement and increases their

1:08:53 | number to ensure that all interested parties from the coalition

1:08:59 | of 11 parties are satisfied. The Confederation is critical of the discussed

1:09:04 | government project on amending certain Acts related to the functioning of government administration and requests its rejection. Thank you, Mr.

1:09:17 | Marshal, Mrs. hands, I am submitting the request of the parliamentary club for a conference

1:09:25 | due to the fact that the parliamentary group has not registered its member to speak.

1:09:32 | This is the end of the speeches on behalf of the club, let’s move on to the discussion, I set a time of one and a half minutes for asking questions, I close the list of MPs

1:09:40 | registered to ask questions, I invite MP Grzegorz first. Braun parliamentary club

1:09:48 | Confederation And I am very sorry, Mr. Suski, for corrections, I set the time

1:09:53 | to one minute, Mr. Speaker, Honorable Member, Mr. Konieczny is not here

1:10:00 | and I clearly state that he did not

1:10:05 | understand, or at least pretended not to understand, what I was talking about, because I was talking about the fact that ordering by destroying existing economic and social structures

1:10:15 | is a bad solution, he smiled when he said that he recommended very well the changes regarding the creation of a new Ministry,

1:10:24 | whether there are 120 or already 137 members of the government at the moment and there will be over 140

1:10:31 | after the creation of the new ministry, but Mr. that rainbow families

1:10:37 | Well, it is not a family of two men who want to live together and create some kind of

1:10:44 | community, but it is not a family, it is not a family, it is something we tolerate,

1:10:52 | but it does not mean that we should equalize the rights and give competences to raise children

1:10:59 | , so I am submitting a correction here, Mr. MP necessary twists words and

1:11:06 | simply tries to destroy the general side of Polish society and our

1:11:14 | civilians, then I invite you for the second time, MP Grzegorz Braun, parliamentary club

1:11:22 | Confederation God bless you, save yourself whoever can, when successive governments

1:11:30 | increase the number of ministries and extend the line of the trough

1:11:37 | to which they are fighting for access warring tribes pisp, however, the current government is going

1:11:45 | on record and increases the number of ministries without increasing

1:11:56 | efficiency in solving the problems faced by the Polish state, a question to the government why are you including in this act

1:12:06 | the obligation to report to the Euro-kolkhoz to the Commission

1:12:12 | European Union I understand that under international agreements we can

1:12:17 | present various information and we can present various data, but

1:12:24 | if you include such an obligation in the Act, it means that the top of the power hierarchy in Poland has moved

1:12:29 | to Brussels and we know this from your practice

1:12:36 | and it does not surprise us. However, it is surprising and hence the question – the ostentation in recognizing

1:12:44 | the authority of the council of people’s commissioners of the new Euro-kolkhozes over the government

1:12:50 | of the Republic of Poland. Is this constitutional, Mr.

1:12:55 | Thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. W. Tumanowicz, the parliamentary club,

1:13:04 | the Confederation, Mrs. Marshal, the High Chamber, since December 13, the government has not carried out

1:13:10 | any serious, thoroughgoing reform. in any area of the functioning of the state, today we are dealing with an act whose purpose is

1:13:18 | to fill the positions Donald Tusk could have played his internal game to feed

1:13:25 | the increasingly unruly coalition partners. Can you answer the question of how many ministers and deputy ministers you currently have and what are

1:13:33 | the scope of responsibilities of each of them? To answer my question. first extend the answer and then you answered evasively, you are building

1:13:42 | a bureaucratic behemoth and making administrative postponements instead of impeding reforms, you are sabotaging important strategic investments, such as the central

1:13:51 | communication port project, Poles are still waiting for the implementation of your promises, a

1:13:57 | tax-free allowance of PLN 600 and a voluntary ZUS, the question is why do you still need

1:14:04 | a Covid prevention fund? -19 since the pandemic madness ended with the introduction of the topic of the war in Ukraine, you maintain the off-budget debt

1:14:14 | exactly the same as PiS, you maintain their policy because in fact you are just two sides of the same coin,

1:14:23 | thank you, thank you, I invite you, the parliamentary club of Poland, dear Speaker of the High Chamber, in his

1:14:33 | speech, Mr. suki was worried that the law would lead to decentralization

1:14:38 | Yes, Mr. MP, it’s high time to end

1:14:44 | the centralization of the state you have been conducting for 8 years, you have been manually ruling the economy for

1:14:54 | 8 years We know from the Polish People’s Republic, they limited local government for 8 years,

1:15:00 | you tried to subordinate non-governmental organizations to yourselves and for 8 years For 8 years they built a feudal system in which your politicians distributed public money

1:15:10 | for gratitude and obedience. Luckily, these dark times are over,

1:15:15 | it’s time for decentralization, it’s time for restoring self-government, it’s time for strengthening civil society

1:15:24 | , thank you very much Thank you very much, MP Janusz Kowalski,

1:15:30 | Law and Justice parliamentary club, Dear Madam Speaker Ladies and Gentlemen Well, actually, you are very funny, there is an evacuation operation going on today because the

1:15:39 | Civic Platform will decide how many Ministers from this government, you lazy liar, will be exported to Brussels, even your ministers don’t want

1:15:48 | to be in this government, which does absolutely nothing, and the Sejm is dealing today next positions for Donald Tusk’s new ones, this is simply ridiculous,

1:15:57 | instead of working and creating good laws, you are taking up new positions for your

1:16:04 | government headed by Mr. Budka, with Mr. Sienkiewicz at the head, I want to go to

1:16:09 | Brussels, but I have such a recommendation to Donald Tusk, who has not been coming to Brussels for months. The Polish Sejm is ashamed to look Poles

1:16:17 | and MPs in the eye. If you are talking today on the board of the Polish reconstruction platform, I have an appeal to Donald Tusk. Let him start the reconstruction with

1:16:25 | himself, let him Reconstruct. At least once in his life he will do a good thing for Poland and I will honestly even say flowers to him. I will bring it for that

1:16:33 | . Thank you, Mr. MP. I see that the tradition of flowers for the Prime Minister is quite alive. I invite you to speak. Mr. Marek Grub Barczyk, the

1:16:43 | Law and Justice parliamentary club, will take the floor. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Your Honor.

1:16:49 | The bill raises an extremely important topic. Nuclear energy is

1:16:56 | a key issue for Poland’s security. Let me just remind you. that for 8 years of our

1:17:02 | rule we have secured Poland in terms of energy security in the field of

1:17:08 | gas, fuel and coal supplies, we have met all the needs that

1:17:15 | were required, especially in terms of the conflict in the east and the resulting

1:17:23 | restrictions, today we face an extremely large challenge of nuclear energy and specific actions have been taken in this regard,

1:17:34 | first of all, work has begun on the construction of the New Port

1:17:40 | at the height of Choszcz, which will secure the delivery of a nuclear reactor to

1:17:46 | the site of construction of the nuclear power plant

1:17:52 | . My question concerns primarily this process. What does

1:17:57 | the continuation of the construction of this investment look like today, primarily in terms of in terms of

1:18:03 | the tenders carried out, first of all, the research carried out in the preparation of this investment, this investment will last at least 5 seconds,

1:18:15 | any delay will result in a delay in the implementation, but is it not a case of

1:18:20 | this project being divided by the Baltic pip construction project from 2000 from 2000,

1:18:27 | when your MP Leszek Miller blocked and liquidated this construction

1:18:34 | Thank you, Mr. MP, I invite you, MP Franciszek Sterczewski,

1:18:39 | parliamentary club, Civic Coalition, Dear Madam High Marshal, Sejm,

1:18:45 | the act dividing the tasks of individual ministries has been introduced many times and by every government, but this amendment is different,

1:18:54 | not the function of the Ministry of Equality and with the appropriate budget and competences

1:19:00 | it could be a detail but I know that for many groups it is of great importance

1:19:05 | lgbt people plus people with disabilities and other marginalized groups have their own

1:19:11 | minister who cares about their rights I would like this approach to be a symbol of the new

1:19:16 | government instead of a proxy as a flower to Kozucha a real minister instead of discrimination acceptance instead of ignoring

1:19:27 | for better equality and this is what Polish women and men expect from us, this is our

1:19:33 | task and this is what we will all fight for together with Minister Kotul and

1:19:38 | Donald Tusk’s government Thank you very much, thank you, I invite MP Iwona Maria Kozłowska to speak, parliamentary club,

1:19:49 | Civic Coalition, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, I am glad that

1:19:55 | we can also welcome seniors. It is very nice that you are here, because I will be talking about the senior policy, the bill presented

1:20:04 | will sort out many issues, including the transfer of tasks related to seniors from the Ministry of Family Social Policy to the Ministry

1:20:13 | of Senior Policy. a very accurate and even necessary decision according to

1:20:18 | GZ data, in 2022 almost 10 million people

1:20:24 | over 60 years of age lived in Poland the share of older people in the population of Polish residents

1:20:30 | is almost 26% huge numbers as a long-time director of a Social Welfare Home

1:20:36 | I am very glad that seniors have their minister who

1:20:41 | will protect their interests where seniors have already been there, younger generations

1:20:46 | are just coming, that’s why it is extremely important that we build friendly and decent living conditions for them with full respect for their interests

1:20:56 | last week’s Poland for Seniors conference a new opening as said by the Minister for Senior Policy Marzena Okła Drewowicz is

1:21:04 | the beginning of the road to building a common senior policy for subsequent generations and this confirms the need to concentrate in one hands, in the hands of

1:21:14 | Minister Marzena Okła Drewowicz, all matters related to senior policy to secure seniors, their future, their dignity.

1:21:27 | Thank you, Grzegorz Lorek will take over the Law and

1:21:33 | Justice parliamentary club. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, Members of Parliament, Honorable Chamber, one of

1:21:40 | the portals writes about coal and nuclear policy in one Ministry of Industry, is this

1:21:45 | not a risk of a conflict of interests?

1:21:56 | There is a Spectrum, namely the entire raw materials policy, Energy, a new section of the management of mining energy resources, jams of

1:22:04 | mining minerals, qualifications of energy resources, fuels, development and use of nuclear energy but the Ministry of State Assets are

1:22:12 | all the major companies managing these companies, a question immediately arises about the conflict of interests and whether this

1:22:22 | has resulted in the disastrous policy towards mining companies

1:22:28 | that has already been mentioned here, namely the construction of a nuclear power plant, which is even worse, because I think it is it is a good move

1:22:38 | to locate one of the Minister. I am in favor of decentralization. And it is good that a Ministry was established in Silesia, but in my opinion it is only in name the transfer of

1:22:49 | an object that in fact will not be well managed.

1:22:55 | and it will generate only problems and troubles. Thank you very much, Mr.

1:23:01 | MP, I invite you to speak. Mr. Jan Michał Dziezak, the parliamentary club, law and justice, Madam Speaker, Honorable Member of the House,

1:23:10 | the appointment of the Government Plenipotentiary for Polish Affairs of Poles Abroad in 2019

1:23:16 | was a very important, if not the most important, organizational event of the administration led by to our compatriots abroad

1:23:26 | to our 20 million compatriots living abroad, so far it was so that

1:23:33 | Polish affairs were scattered in the government administration, some were handled by the senate, some were handled by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, some were the Ministry of Culture, some were

1:23:42 | the Ministry of Education, some were the Ministry of Science, we could

1:23:47 | list many more institutions dealing with this topic, compatriots coming to Poland who wanted to do something with the Polish state, compatriots

1:23:59 | who were in contact with the Polish state, did not really know who exactly was dealing with the Polish diaspora and Poles abroad, so we created a

1:24:09 | coordinating institution, i.e. a government representative who

1:24:14 | coordinated all these institutions, the state The Destroyer is an important facilitation, also the

1:24:22 | possibility that the Polish state can plan long-term cooperation with

1:24:28 | its compatriots, so that the Polish diaspora policy is taken seriously and is included in the foreign policy of the Polish state. This is negative, it is

1:24:39 | also contrary to what the Polish community has been postulating for years, they even postulated the establishment of a Ministry of Polish diaspora. and the state is still withdrawing the whole

1:24:47 | matter, dividing the Polish issues into many institutions again, but I have a question for the minister, a very important question, because part of the money for the Polish diaspora

1:24:56 | was directed to the senate, so the legislative power will exercise

1:25:02 | the competences of the executive power, is it consistent with the constitution, and this is the first The issue for me is not the answer that

1:25:11 | it has always been like this because it was implemented in 1989, when the Sejm was elected democratically, it had no authority among the migration community, that’s why

1:25:20 | the money was directed to the Senate then, so there is no POW for us to

1:25:25 | return to it Because the legislative power should to deal with the issues of the legislative power

1:25:30 | , not the executive power, and the second thing is, how does the minister imagine the monitoring function of the Sejm of the Republic of Poland in relation to the activities of the Senate, will we invite

1:25:41 | the Speaker of the Senate to committee meetings or to plenary sessions, who will explain himself to us because it is really a very bad mechanism when

1:25:50 | the institutions the legislative authorities exercise the executive power Thank you, thank you, I invite you, MP Grzegorz Woźniak, Law and

1:26:01 | Justice parliamentary club. Thank you, Madam Speaker, Mr. One more second. I am very sorry, I would like to welcome the guests of MP Ewa Kołodziej.

1:26:10 | From the Upper Silesian Union and seniors from Siemianowice, ladies and gentlemen,

1:26:16 | Hello, thank you and have a nice day and Enjoy your visit to the Sejm, Mr. MP. Thank you, Madam Speaker, Madam Speaker,

1:26:25 | the bill being processed today regarding organizational changes

1:26:30 | in the government introduces a large government, yes, many people emphasized over 135

1:26:36 | members, there may be more in a moment after these changes. But these changes also

1:26:41 | lead to many conflict situations from what

1:26:47 | you will present the transfer of certain competences, the transfer at the moment, in particular, I will refer to two of them:

1:26:56 | to the communication and energy industries, among others, to the transfer of the tasks

1:27:02 | of the central communication port and the energy industry, nuclear issues , isn’t it the case that through these changes you want to as if abandon

1:27:11 | the implementation of these projects or whether to delay them I would like an answer to this question

1:27:16 | Thank you very much, I invite you to speak, MP Małgorzata Pępek,

1:27:21 | parliamentary club, Civic Coalition, Madam Speaker, High Chamber, this is an

1:27:27 | important project that fulfills our obligations, we are doing what

1:27:33 | was expected of us, i.e. we are improving the activities of the government administration. Thanks to this

1:27:39 | specific division of competences between ministries, it will be possible

1:27:44 | to significantly increase the effectiveness of our activities

1:27:51 | Polish women Poles expect efficiently prepared draft laws

1:27:56 | and new ideas that will change their lives for the better because

1:28:03 | the government must be efficient. Modest and accountable and held accountable by the people, and

1:28:09 | this bill is a perfect example of turning our promises into

1:28:15 | reality, MP Suski. It’s a pity that he went because he criticized this bill so much and

1:28:21 | PiS is against it, he didn’t submit a single amendment because you simply don’t want to work. on a good bill and only

1:28:31 | you know how to criticize Thank you very much Thank you very much, Mrs. kek, I invite you,

1:28:37 | MP Norbert Jakub Kaczmarczyk, Law and Justice parliamentary club. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber. I would like to raise two issues

1:28:46 | related to the control function of the Sejm and the second issue is the issue of the Ministry

1:28:52 | of Equality, the first issue is indeed The control function brings us to a situation

1:28:57 | in which a minister of his rank or a deputy minister at meetings does not really matter when it comes to the ability to make decisions. It is

1:29:08 | simply competence, the division of these competences is so small that a situation arises in which the minister is only a minister in name. He has no

1:29:17 | the possibility of making decisions is, in fact, the dilution of this responsibility,

1:29:23 | there is a situation in which it is hard to look for an MP and not a minister.

1:29:28 | In the past, it was true that the honor of being a minister was also given to

1:29:34 | MPs in their benches. However, today it is a practice that is intended to

1:29:40 | cement the government coalition and, in fact, this is a problem because we are the control function, we are supposed to exercise control over the government, and at this

1:29:49 | moment it is turning the whole of Poland upside down, the entire Polish legislation, because we are really

1:29:56 | just a tool so that in the future someone from these benches could become a minister to maintain the government. this is not serious as far as the issue of the Ministry

1:30:04 | of Equality is concerned, you can laugh at it but I would like this Ministry to

1:30:10 | function well. But I lack equality there in terms of, for example, issues related to

1:30:16 | agriculture in the European Union, if this Ministry had in its ranks and competences a person who would deal with for example, the flow of goods from

1:30:25 | Ukraine in terms of the possibility of producing cheaper, when it comes to plant protection products, fertilizers, genetically modified plants

1:30:34 | and the clash with a Polish farmer who produces within the European Union and that this minister should defend the interests of Poland, the interest of the Polish farmer in terms of

1:30:45 | equal competition in the treatment of his business I would actually be able

1:30:50 | to look positively at this type of proposals, not only propaganda and looking for cheap applause. Thank you very much,

1:30:59 | Mr. Thank you very much, Mr. I think how quickly amnesia sets in, because as far as I remember, most of the ministers and deputy ministers were members of parliament in your government. Thank you

1:31:08 | very much, you also was very please, a correction at the end, Mr. MP, I

1:31:14 | will give you a correction at the end, yes, yes, just let the MP just eat during my speech,

1:31:25 | the practices that were used by free Poland after 1989 were good I think

1:31:30 | that we should go a step further, the MP should remain an MP, that’s why the legislative power would be

1:31:39 | treated you as all parties Please, MP Włodzimierz

1:31:44 | Skalik parliamentary club Konfederacja PS Wysoka IB shan Pawo min

1:31:54 | will turn to the prime minister who is the author of this construction of Byzantium

1:32:00 | because, after all, he is known for not being a particularly hard-working person,

1:32:05 | so it’s no wonder that all competences belonging to the previous Prime Minister are transferred to his

1:32:16 | ministers during the meeting of the joint committees, Minister Maciej Berek referred, among others, to

1:32:27 | the foundation established in 2019, the Future Industry Platform is one of many

1:32:34 | fairs organized by Mateusz Morawiecki, it could be expected

1:32:42 | that the Minister would present the idea of liquidation this one of many feeders

1:32:48 | , however, it turns out that he is not thinking about it, he just presented an idea for

1:32:55 | personnel changes in this foundation financed from the state budget. And there is something to talk about, because

1:33:01 | the council of this foundation itself consists of 12 people, because there is no Prime Minister

1:33:09 | Donald Tusk, the author of this concept functioning of the government I would like him to answer me in writing Why he resigned from implementing

1:33:21 | one of his 100 specifics one of his 100 obligations to eliminate the number of ministers and deputy ministers,

1:33:32 | thank you very much, thank you very much, this is it, we have exhausted the list of those registered

1:33:38 | to vote. The minister, member of the Council of Ministers, Mr. Maciej Berek, asked to vote. Please, Mr.

1:33:52 | Minister, Mr. Speaker, Honorable Chamber, this is an act that is

1:33:59 | apparently simple, but as it turns out however, quite complicated because the speeches of your MPs from the opposition,

1:34:09 | the questions that were asked partly simply indicate a misunderstanding of what we are talking about, and partly are an attempt to redirect this discussion to

1:34:17 | other aspects. But I also want to refer to them, I want to refer to them, starting with my in his speech, Mr. Suski

1:34:28 | signaled, and later in the questions also from Mr. Brun, there was surprise and astonishment that the minister was supposed to present certain information to the

1:34:37 | European Commission, so if you, Members, would look at these provisions yourself or with the help of your assistants, you would know that this is a provision

1:34:45 | that nothing is introduced there, only the minister who is supposed to provide this information changes because the tasks related to the implementation of a certain

1:34:52 | area have been transferred to another minister and the same regulation that was implemented by a minister of the PiS government will be implemented by

1:35:00 | another minister because the tasks in that area have been moved there is nothing more to it, no matter how hard you try, the MP will not be able to find it, there is no mention of it in this act, and

1:35:10 | of course, civil partnerships, but what is also clear here is the assignment of specific tasks to the Minister for Equality,

1:35:20 | the draft law on civil partnerships will be considered in the parliament. could you MPs refer to it? I think that the freedom with which the MP

1:35:32 | claims that these are not families will be verified and assessed by those who will listen to the MP’s speeches, these are families, because families are

1:35:40 | different, but that is not what this project is about today. is that the government, by decision of the Sejm, was in fact formed at the request of the Chairman of the Council

1:35:50 | of Ministers, Donald Tusk, as it was formed in the composition that was appointed, and the act that the High Chamber is considering is an act that

1:35:59 | arranges the assignment of tasks to individual ministers in line with how this structure was formed. many times,

1:36:08 | as if with such surprise, the MP brings up

1:36:14 | the issue of the question mark that I emphasize the fact that we have three

1:36:21 | constitutional Ministers who, Mr. Yes, yes, I proudly emphasize it because the issues of equality of senior policy and

1:36:30 | civil society are not a reason for us to be ashamed, they are for us it is a reason to

1:36:35 | be proud that these issues have gained such importance and because ministers of constitutional rank, contrary to what you think, it is important that

1:36:43 | a representative of Poland of the rank of a constitutional member, member of the council of ministers, appears in various meetings and talks, also in external relations,

1:36:52 | and that is not the case it is important for its effectiveness it is important for the tasks it performs so yes, it was

1:37:01 | one of the sources that resulted from how this act, how this project was prepared yes, the second source was that the prime minister’s office during

1:37:09 | the previous government was above the Ministry budget over PLN 2 billion,

1:37:14 | several institutes, funds assigned to the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, Polish

1:37:20 | Economic Institute, a lot of various entities with which the functioning of the Prime Minister and his constitutional tasks have absolutely nothing in common, and it

1:37:28 | was and is the will of this government that these tasks should be returned to where they should be, where they were earlier, i.e. to the ministers, and that is why all these

1:37:39 | transfers are being made when it comes to questions, Mr. Tumanowicz is referring to his interpellations, Mr. MP,

1:37:46 | all this information is on the website on the websites , yes, giving interpellations, answers to interpellations

1:37:52 | for which data must be collected from websites. it actually takes a while, I think it would not be a problem. To obtain it in a different

1:38:01 | way, the MP, Minister Gróbarczyk, asked about the continuation nuclear energy program, nothing changes here, nothing is happening, what

1:38:10 | has been designed at this stage, everything is still being investigated, there are questions relating indirectly to the central

1:38:18 | communication port, what has been announced has been launched, audits have been launched, expropriations have been suspended, transfer of the plenipotentiary for CPK

1:38:27 | to the Minister Infrastructure is intended, among other things, to eliminate such absurdities, which consist in the fact that the Ministry

1:38:35 | of Infrastructure, or rather the company PKP Polish Railway Lines, planned infrastructure investments that were inconsistent with what was planned by the Minister

1:38:43 | of Infrastructure, the Plenipotentiary for CPK, who was in the Ministry of Funds in It will be helpful to eliminate this type of absurdity if matters related to CPK

1:38:53 | are implemented within the Ministry, which is responsible for infrastructure primarily.

1:39:00 | You asked Mr. Dziezak about the issues of the Polish diaspora, Mr. MP, as you

1:39:07 | know, as the Speaker said, this issue has been operating in a specific way for years, but I I also want to say very clearly that we

1:39:15 | have left these tasks to the Senate to a marginal extent, as the MP, the

1:39:21 | Minister knows, the Senate will rather expect this to be expanded. We are currently talking about the budget for these tasks, in fact, they are no longer tasks of

1:39:29 | the nature of financing some tasks, as Once upon a time, a long time ago, it was implemented by the Senate because the amount that remains at the Senate’s disposal is

1:39:38 | an order of magnitude of PLN 10 million, with approximately PLN 5 or 600 million

1:39:44 | allocated to support tasks for the Polish diaspora and implemented by individual

1:39:49 | ministries, in particular the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Mr Speaker, when you talk

1:39:58 | about it in the Senate at a time when you were responsible for it, the MP is confronted with the expectation of the Senate in every political configuration that they want to

1:40:07 | maintain these traditions of contact and ties with the Polish community, despite all the known reservations that for years it has been echoing exactly the same thing as

1:40:16 | successive Senate Marshals in subsequent terms have been trying to appeal to successive Ministers to be able to carry out certain tasks, which are more and more symbolic,

1:40:23 | or at least maintain contact with the community. Because that’s what this amount, the amount that is left,

1:40:31 | is actually used for at the moment it only allows it and these are probably the fundamental questions that were asked, Madam

1:40:41 | Speaker, thank you very much, I want to emphasize once again that reading this act requires the ability to combine what is in this text with the fact that in fact

1:40:51 | this act simply transfers the tasks that are today

1:40:56 | assigned to ministers to those Ministers who are responsible for the new administration structure in which we operate, no new creation of new tasks. By the

1:41:05 | way, we are not implementing this project here. Thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. Minister, I am closing the discussion here

1:41:16 | due to the fact that during the second reading the submitted bill was amended and request to

1:41:25 | the Sejm, refer this project again to the internal affairs administration committee, to the committee for energy, climate and state assets in order to

1:41:32 | present a report. Well,

1:41:38 | the representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Minister

1:41:44 | Bartoszewski, would like

1:41:53 | to ask you to answer the questions of Mr.

1:41:58 | Yes, prodom sua occurs today because the only representative

1:42:04 | of the Government for Polish diaspora matters was you, so to

1:42:10 | speak, but I will not address you

1:42:16 | personally, I am just pointing out that the Senate has always

1:42:24 | been responsible for the care of Poles and Polish diaspora, Poles living abroad. and the Polish diaspora, he always dealt with it regardless of whether there was a proxy

1:42:32 | or no proxy, and there was no issue here that the Sejm did not control

1:42:37 | this situation, the fact that the money was in the Chancellery of the Prime Minister was questioned by various

1:42:44 | political parties in previous terms, it was not natural and

1:42:49 | because the Ministry Foreign Affairs, among other things, has control over the consulate. These consulates are

1:42:58 | the closest part of the state administration to Poles who live abroad and deal with them on a daily basis, the simplest and

1:43:07 | also more complicated matters, so it was natural in terms of

1:43:13 | money, in terms

1:43:21 | of funds, the funds that the senate receives, which

1:43:29 | noab did not have earlier this year for the first time since For five years, the Senate

1:43:35 | has organized a competition devoted to the implementation of

1:43:41 | public tasks in the field of care for the Polish diaspora and Poles living abroad. It has not been possible for five years

1:43:49 | for the Ministry of Finance to allocate this competition where the Senate is trying to maintain some connection with the Polish diaspora, as

1:44:01 | the minister said. Anyway, what is the point? but but the affairs of the Polish diaspora and

1:44:07 | Poles living abroad are logically taken over by the Ministry of

1:44:12 | Foreign Affairs and the competent deputy minister who deals with it and this is a rationalization of this situation because then until now it

1:44:22 | has worked in such a way that some of them were in the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, some of them were forced to do so because consulates in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, some of them were in the Senate and there was some chaos, the representative was dismissed

1:44:33 | in ’23 If I recall, and he has been gone since then. So, after the last

1:44:40 | elections, this is a rational situation, just like the entire project to change changes in

1:44:46 | government administration, which was prepared by the Chancellery of the Prime Minister. with the help

1:44:51 | of all ministries Thank you, Minister, half a minute okay

1:44:58 | Thank you very much, Madam Speaker

1:45:03 | , I mean, in general, let me remind you that the proposal to take money from the Senate and

1:45:09 | direct it to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was Minister Sikorski’s proposal in 2012 and it is worth

1:45:14 | reminding about it and I am in favor of it there was simply one coordinating place in the Polish government that will deal with the Polish diaspora,

1:45:24 | the senate. Of course, it is always the patron of our compatriots abroad, but

1:45:29 | it does not necessarily have to implement quite a large budget because, as I say, the legislative power

1:45:35 | should not do that, and one more remark is the appointment of the

1:45:42 | TR. I’m sorry, Mr. due to the fact that the second reading was submitted to the submitted

1:45:51 | draft bill, amendments were submitted again to the internal affairs administration committee and the energy, climate and

1:45:59 | state assets committee to present a report. If I hear no objection, I will consider that the Sejm has accepted the proposal, I hear no objection,

1:46:15 | we will proceed to consideration point two of the agenda, report of the committee on national and ethnic minorities,

1:46:26 | Nych and regional languages and certain other TR acts no. 233 and

1:46:34 | 289, I am asking MP Monika Rosa to present the committee’s report. I would like to ask you,

1:46:43 | MP, dear Marshal

1:46:53 | of Silesia, several years of efforts here in the Sejm and the last 7 years the efforts of my

1:47:01 | MPs, members of today’s Civic Coalition, friendly people who

1:47:07 | supported the Silesian language to finally be recognized as a regional language and

1:47:13 | today we have the first reading of the bill behind us, I have a meeting of

1:47:20 | the Dśu Op Committee, we are starting the second reading during the Commission meeting but also during our debate here in

1:47:29 | the plenary hall Historical arguments clashed and, more importantly, linguistic arguments and paralanguage clashed, but above all,

1:47:40 | visions of the state clashed – one side that belittled Silesia and the value of the

1:47:46 | Silesian language, a side that did not understand the diversity and the other side that saw great value in the

1:47:52 | smaller languages of Silesia and in this language. Nevertheless,

1:47:58 | I am happy it turns out that over the last few years the debate on the Silesian language

1:48:04 | has finally increased, but history will remember and the words that were said and hurt

1:48:10 | Silesian women were unnecessary, exaggerated, often simply

1:48:15 | false, and today a stage in history is ending and the Republic of Poland is ending the era of not a state within it RN towards the language, the time of often

1:48:29 | unconcealed hatred towards Silesians is ending. The time of talking about us as a

1:48:35 | camouflaged German option is ending. During the committee, I had the pleasure

1:48:40 | of telling you once again about the value of this project, about the fact that the Silesian language is simply

1:48:46 | a fact, about the fact that all the conditions of definition regional language,

1:48:53 | Silesians cared about their language and developed it over recent years, for

1:49:00 | many years we were told that our language was something worse, that it was only a dialect

1:49:06 | it was repeated that it was impossible to express sublime or

1:49:11 | philosophical content to Godka, these words were uttered from many mouths, they were ill-considered, they were unfair,

1:49:17 | it was unfair, because it was enough to get acquainted with the activities of Silesian men and women, also here, those present in the Sejm gallery and those who are watching

1:49:27 | our debate are watching the debate in Silesian language also now, as Szczepan Twardoch said,

1:49:33 | the Silesian language exists because there are people who treat it as their own language, who want to speak it and who want

1:49:43 | to write in it, during our worse and better diversity debates in Silesia, the lasting

1:49:49 | power of creation with passion, the Silesian moan made with pride, speaking in

1:49:55 | the language Banners were written in Silesian out of anger, slogans

1:50:00 | were written in Silesian, poems were written in Silesian out of love, work on the language was done by hundreds

1:50:07 | of thousands of Silesian men and women. It will go down in history books as an example of a true, great, selfless dedication to one’s culture, one’s

1:50:17 | language and one’s affiliation, it was

1:50:24 | without support on the part of the state These efforts must be appreciated even more today – the master of prose Szandor Maraj wrote It seems that they have nothing left and

1:50:36 | suddenly one day they discover that without an accent they are no longer the same people as they used to be when they still had an accent Accent means their

1:50:45 | identity they are afraid lose identity

1:50:53 | bend o o all accents simply about maintaining identity a different philosophy

1:51:00 | of the State Unfortunately, the MPs of Law and Justice present what they expressed during the commission, they spoke first of all about the immortal position of the

1:51:09 | Polish language council and Professor Miotek who deny the existence of the Silesian language, they spoke about Silesians, their connections, the Catalan Cubs and

1:51:19 | Russia, including Kasia, denied the aspirations of Silesians and Wilanians

1:51:27 | to recognize their language and, fourthly, they referred to the position of the Supreme Court regarding the application of an association of people of Silesian nationality

1:51:35 | for entry into the national register. The Confederation’s deputies were not actively present at the meeting. Maybe it was because there were simply no arguments and PiS’s approach is not surprising

1:51:44 | because it is enough to look at the arguments made by the government in recent years

1:51:50 | regarding the use of dialects, which will lead to a paradoxical situation in

1:51:56 | which the society of the Republic of Poland consisted exclusively of people using separate regional languages without the existence of a national

1:52:04 | general language. Isn’t it the words that speak of fear, fear and lack of faith in

1:52:11 | Poland, in its strength and WJ, openness and I. When presenting this bill in Poland,

1:52:17 | I believe in strength, openness and institutions,

1:52:25 | Zbigniew Rokita, the author of the legendary book Kajś, talked about it

1:52:30 | because A person who does not believe in Polishness was afraid that the Silesians could

1:52:35 | threaten the Poles would be against granting Silesians their due rights, the government’s position

1:52:41 | was reflected in the fear that Polishness is weak Because this is probably the essence of nationalism,

1:52:47 | nationalism is fed by the fear that allowing otherness means a disaster.

1:52:53 | Coming back to the arguments of MPs Selina and Zubowski, the counter during the committee

1:52:58 | was presented to them by Professor J Tambor, a linguist, the director of the school of language

1:53:04 | and culture. of the Polish University of Silesia in Katowice said, first of all, that the Silesian language exists and has the same features that allow

1:53:13 | it to be recognized as a regional language as Kashubian had, that the only real difference

1:53:19 | in the efforts to recognize it as a regional language

1:53:25 | is that while Kashubian was recognized as a regional language There were also arguments from linguists that it is not a language, that Silesian is characterized by

1:53:37 | a very advanced degree of orthographic and lexicon codification, although many people do not want to acknowledge it, that orthographic and

1:53:45 | grammatical codification has taken place and is still taking place and will continue to take place, and

1:53:51 | that there are no linguistic distinguishing features of languages. and dialects, it is a matter of names and simply legal

1:54:01 | recognition. During the Commission meeting, MEP Łukasz Kochut also spoke,

1:54:08 | who said so, recognizing the Silesian language and Silesian Gothic as a regional language is a purely political decision, it is an important battle for Silesia because it has been going on for

1:54:18 | decades, fear of Silesians in the Silesian language results primarily from the lack

1:54:24 | of knowledge and the eternal fear of otherness, and actually recognition Silesian as a language and Silesians as a minority – it’s just a matter of recognizing

1:54:34 | the facts. The committee meeting was also attended by Grzegorz Kulik, chairman of the Silesian Language Council,

1:54:41 | who explained what a huge step forward the Silesian language has made in recent years, its translations alone, speech corpus, Silesian translator,

1:54:49 | operating system, yes, PiS MPs the judgment of the Supreme Court from

1:54:55 | 2013, which was questioned by the Human Rights Tribunal in Strasbourg, the Silesian language is a fact, Silesians are demanding support from

1:55:06 | the state because they have no other way, Rafał Rzepka from

1:55:11 | the Open Silesia collective, Adrian Gorecki, former senator Halina, is running senator May, also said during the meeting kie mayor Gabriel Toor, translator of the Bible into Silesian,

1:55:23 | many MPs, MPs, people involved, organizations, creators,

1:55:29 | translators, publishers, committee, committee, it was commented on and it shows how

1:55:36 | important this topic is for the voivodeship and for Silesia itself. PiS MPs, of course, submitted

1:55:42 | a motion for the draft bill, which was lost in the general vote . against the proposals that I submitted in order to postpone

1:55:54 | and prepare for teaching the Silesian language in schools and to prepare competitions for grants from the budget of the Ministry of Interior

1:56:03 | and Administration. I would also like to thank the legislator for their contribution to the work on this project, the project was approved by the committee by a majority of eight votes to two

1:56:14 | against which I would like to thank you all very much, because for years politicians

1:56:19 | have been pouring sand into the wheels of Silesian efforts. Can the Silesian groan be at risk since half a million people declare its

1:56:28 | use? It may be at risk if the state does not support it,

1:56:34 | because it needs research, revitalization, science and it is needed. there is the prestige of giving

1:56:41 | Silesian the status of a regional language because languages are dying

1:56:53 | that can call dog in the Wysk language. Emer Szulce died in 1756. He was the last

1:57:02 | person who could speak and sing in this language. The average age of the users of

1:57:07 | the Wilamowski language is 90 years. Chel also show you that the Silesian language

1:57:17 | is Polish.

1:57:24 | The Silesian poet wrote like this the language was already wtj Bey to work DKC Bzie arka

1:57:35 | na Kierz words animals sied kurzym cigars one by one mating

1:57:41 | animals Skor there was no one to do it so it is

1:57:52 | the life of the last user of the ui language who died 30 years ago the already mentioned

1:57:59 | Zbigniew Rokita he wrote that the 20th century is a Deluge for diversity, the ark for

1:58:05 | Silesians is the language and for the language the state is an IV drip, fortunately not yet

1:58:11 | a defibrillator, the state’s duty is to ensure the well-being of the Silesian language users today

1:58:23 | But how to do it Thanks to the recognition of Silesia as a regional region, a wide range of actions will be taken which this language will be saved,

1:58:32 | revitalization programs will be created, we will examine the viability of this language, we may discover forgotten words, the American anthropologist Marshall Sachin

1:58:43 | wrote that every culture is a game with nature and the survival of every culture depends on

1:58:49 | the continuity of access to natural resources and on the ability to resist threats,

1:58:55 | passing an act on the regional Silesian language will implement wise programs that

1:59:00 | will protect the Silesian language from extinction, will help to fend off the threats posed

1:59:06 | to our language by time, politics and globalization, changing the law is supposedly

1:59:13 | a matter of adding a dozen or so letters of two words:

1:59:19 | Silesian language, but it is actually a change of the state because these words contain

1:59:26 | the understanding of the relationship between the state and minorities, less fear, more openness,

1:59:32 | citizens’ actions will be appreciated, citizens of the Republic of Poland, for their own culture, our civic community, simply

1:59:45 | make it more beautiful, about Hana, about Jorg, it will be about

1:59:53 | the sons, the point will be that they will come home and talk to their parents

1:59:58 | with subsequent words in Silesian because what this Silesian and getting to know their history and

2:00:04 | culture will definitely give them openness because more doors to the world will be

2:00:10 | open to them better understanding of history and the past because you have to respect it less living in fear because what can you be afraid of if you understand the world maybe

2:00:22 | they will follow They are well trodden Silesian women of Silesia through science and creativity and

2:00:27 | will receive the Nobel Prize just like Maria Gepert Mejer or Olga Tokarczuk A

2:00:32 | maybe they will find their place in life and gain fame, just like the Nobel Prize winner from 120 years ago, Frederik Mistral, who renewed the cultural heritage of Provence and its

2:00:41 | language. Maybe one day they will also make words like those in the Provençal dialect of

2:00:47 | the Occitan language, his wine, beauty, bread, roads, has the Sun, to the delight of the people. out of love he trusts God his

2:00:58 | highest hope hides hatred because of what is hate he loves and fights for what is love the parliamentary fight of Silesian women and

2:01:08 | men for what they love or for their language is slowly coming to an end Dear

2:01:15 | MPs MPs zader thanks to the efforts of so many organizations politicians activists people

2:01:26 | culture and today, on Friday, during the vote, we can all really be very proud of ourselves Ladies and Gentlemen, vote for

2:01:34 | the regional language, for the love of the language for Silesia and finally for the love

2:01:40 | of the world, beautiful in its diversity, thank you, Mrs. MP, of course, on behalf of us,

2:01:50 | greetings to all those who love their language and they are fighting for it. I greet you in the gallery, but I would also like to greet the group from Podbeskidzie and Cieszyn

2:01:59 | Silesia who came at the invitation of Mr. Mirosław Suchon,

2:02:04 | chairman of the Poland 2050 parliamentary club . I wish you a pleasant visit and only good impressions. I hope that

2:02:14 | your trip will be successful. Best regards, as well as the rest of us. The Sejm has agreed that the agenda item for the discussion will include

2:02:24 | a five-minute statement on behalf of the club and a three-minute statement on behalf of the group. I am opening the discussion. Mr. Wojciech Michał

2:02:32 | Zubowski, MP, Law and Justice parliamentary club will take the floor. Thank you, Madam Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, Your Honor, I have the honor to present the position of

2:02:42 | the Law parliamentary club. and Justice to the report of the committee of national ethnic minorities from form no. 289 to the parliamentary draft act on amending

2:02:49 | the Act on national ethnic minorities and the regional language and certain other acts, the mentioned committee worked on the project during

2:02:57 | the meeting on April 9, the amendments proposed by the committee and during the work of the committee

2:03:03 | are consistent with the direction previously adopted by the Sejm majority, i.e. recognizing the Silesian dialect as a regional language, during the discussion at

2:03:12 | the committee meeting, the representatives of the applicants confirmed that the proposed change, i.e. recognizing the Silesian dialect as a regional language, is in

2:03:19 | the nature of a political decision of experts and earlier fragments

2:03:24 | of expert opinions that were taken into account during the work of the Sejm on similar

2:03:29 | projects in previous terms confirmed that the language is against the proposed changes, i.e. it is a change not resulting from reasons other

2:03:37 | than political ones. Their concerns about the adoption of a project for which the main basis is such a motive, i.e. political, were also expressed by member of the

2:03:45 | general council of the association Korski, who will return the project to only

2:03:50 | this is a kind of opening of Pandora’s box, which may result in further changes to the list of regional languages, also

2:03:57 | adopted solely on the basis of political decisions. During the work of the committee, it was recalled that only during the work of the committee it was recalled that

2:04:06 | the position of the Polish language council on the proposed changes is negative and it will not be implemented. the position of the Supreme Court has actually changed,

2:04:14 | in which in its letter it draws attention to the existence of the Silesian dialect or language, most of the opinions presented by the

2:04:20 | parliamentary analysis office on this matter were also negative, and the committee is still pushing forward with this project because, as a Law and Justice club, we have submitted motion

2:04:29 | to abandon the entire bill, we will not support the amendments to the said bill, and finally, Ladies and Gentlemen, the rapporteur,

2:04:39 | Madam Speaker, Madam Speaker, uttered false and, unfortunately, offensive words towards those who do not agree to lead the way

2:04:46 | for

2:04:52 | the Silesian people as no one else is against the highlanders and other inhabitants of various parts of Poland, meanwhile supporters of recognizing the dialect as

2:04:59 | a language are trying to build a narrative on this alleged hostility, it is not hostility, ladies and gentlemen, respect for the law and common sense are the reason

2:05:07 | this or that position. It’s a pity on our part, and I’ll add it by the way, they say that during the Commission meeting I have the impression that a careful selection was made,

2:05:15 | as everything indicates, only those experts were selected whose position was consistent with the position of the Commission, although

2:05:23 | some were also completely different, which does not mean ladies and gentlemen that those who

2:05:28 | spoke at the last committee meeting must always be right, thank you very much,

2:05:35 | thank you very much, Mr. Krystyna Szumilas, MP Krystyna Szumilas, parliamentary club

2:05:45 | , Civic Coalition, Mr. MEP, show me that this

2:05:52 | is the reason for the fight for the Silesian language because this language is closely related to history and

2:06:00 | the identity of this region of Silesia is the cultural heritage of Silesia for

2:06:07 | Silesians it is the language of our fathers, mothers and grandfathers, a symbol of belonging

2:06:14 | to a unique community of people who come to Silesia, it enchants with its

2:06:23 | diversity through years of attempts to Germanize the Silesian land, our Gothka

2:06:29 | was the most important weapon that served the Silesians to defend their

2:06:35 | Polishness Silesians they stood by it in the times of the Polish People’s Republic, although the then authorities

2:06:42 | prepared people using this language, denying them the right to

2:06:48 | social and professional advancement. The Silesian language is our

2:06:54 | family language, in the memory of our ancestors, part of our culture and tradition, it is

2:07:00 | present in the everyday life of the inhabitants of Silesia in many places. Although it is already more and more

2:07:07 | less often, it is the first language that a child learns at home,

2:07:13 | the language in which he or she talks to his or her peers while

2:07:19 | playing, however, as the result of the media changes, social changes but also

2:07:26 | opinions expressed by the MP, this fight against

2:07:33 | Silesia, establishing that only what you think is Polishness counts

2:07:40 | in this country causes the Silesian language to be

2:07:47 | threatened, paradoxically by the social activity of people of good will, scientists, creators and artists.

2:07:59 | If it does not receive state support, it may become the language of the past

2:08:06 | understood only by a narrow group of researchers, while respecting the achievements of the future,

2:08:13 | our history and traditions, we must do everything to avoid this. it is our

2:08:19 | duty to preserve for future generations this

2:08:25 | extraordinary legacy left to us by our ancestors in the past

2:08:31 | regime, the state fought against the Silesian language, but today it is the state that should support

2:08:39 | people who care about their language. the modern state has an obligation to protect

2:08:46 | this element of the cultural code and prevent its disappearance.

2:08:51 | enable development they understand It is the Silesians who have been fighting for years for the Silesian language

2:08:58 | to take its rightful place and become a regional language, the project

2:09:05 | we are talking about today is exactly what we are talking about in the public space, there is a well-known

2:09:11 | saying that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy However, it is clear for

2:09:17 | Silesian We, the Silesians, have proven to be the most effective army, so I believe that,

2:09:25 | bearing in mind that the language is an extraordinary value, that we should

2:09:32 | respect our tradition, that we should pass on what is

2:09:38 | most valuable to the next generations, the Civic Coalition will vote for

2:09:44 | the recognition of the Silesian language as a regional language and we will

2:09:49 | convince even those that Silesia is not Polish Silesia is definitely Polish and the Silesians

2:10:00 | have proven it Thank you Thank you very much I invite you MP Michał grammar parliamentary club Poland 2050 TR

2:10:16 | dear Madam High Marshal of the Sejm frelki karlusy from the gallery behind this gel famous book Kajś by Zbigniew

2:10:28 | Rokita awarded with the Supreme Audit Office author writes about the village of Ostropa and its

2:10:35 | inhabitants, they always lived there, once they were in Prussia, once in the Czech Republic, then in Poland

2:10:42 | they were forced to speak German, and

2:10:53 | the thing is that Silesian companies and mines were not

2:10:59 | governed by directors from Krakow or from the former Congress party, but in they always lived

2:11:06 | in our homes because they felt they were Silesians because they had their own customs and their own

2:11:12 | style. Besides , in Silesia we still

2:11:23 | talk about such pnioki because they have always been here and have always cultivated their

2:11:30 | individuality because they felt good where they are and they are just as they would be if we were here today.

2:11:39 | just let them go Poland would lose part of its own

2:11:45 | identity p smj world history kzet Silesia leaning once towards

2:11:53 | Poland once again towards Germany, places of heated debate of election campaigns,

2:12:00 | Uprising plebiscite, which often divided Ostrop’s families, today the district of

2:12:07 | Gliwice is associated with one of the exits from the Silesian section of the A4 motorway,

2:12:13 | there are photos left from the old days, memories, yellowed page, Upper Silesia

2:12:19 | in the digital library, Korfanty’s proclamation, Long live the liberated

2:12:24 | Upper Silesia forever united with the free Republic of Poland and a record of the results of

2:12:30 | the people’s vote in the Ostropa plebiscite Poles

2:12:36 | 937 Germany 645 hundreds of thousands of Silesian women and men declared that Goth is

2:12:48 | precious to them, that they speak Silesian, that it is and always has been their language, not

2:12:55 | a dialect, not an aside, but the language is for one of them is this

2:13:03 | bill Thank you, Mr. MP, I invite you, Mr. Łukasz Osmalak,

2:13:10 | parliamentary club, Poland 2050 TR, dear, please, Mr. MP.

2:13:20 | Thank you very much, it is a mere formality. I think that at the previous session of the Sejm

2:13:25 | we clearly proved that it cannot be otherwise. The Silesian language meets

2:13:30 | all the criteria of a regional language. just like the Kashubian language,

2:13:36 | children learn it at school and we, as Silesians, would like exactly the

2:13:43 | same thing, we here in the Sejm, as politicians, should make all this possible for Silesians as soon as

2:13:49 | possible, in the general census conducted in 2021, over half a million citizens, over half a million Silesians,

2:14:00 | declared that they are Silesian and declared Silesian citizenship Silesians have their own

2:14:11 | identity Silesians have their own language we have books written in Silesian we have

2:14:17 | Silesian-Polish dictionaries Polish-Silesian dictionaries we have numerous literary festivals we have

2:14:24 | Silesian speech competitions in every commune in every poviat there are various circles

2:14:30 | and institutions that promote this what about Silesia? Silesian

2:14:35 | goth of Silesian culture and everything related to Silesia? This is what

2:14:42 | I will tell you at the end. Listen, there is nothing more to dispel here. Let’s

2:14:48 | talk about Silesia in Silesian. Thank you very much,

2:14:53 | Mr. MP. I invite you, Mr. Jarosław Rzepa, the parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the third way. Madam Speaker, Honorable

2:15:06 | Member of the House, my previous speaker talked about the 2021 census, exactly then , 596,224 people

2:15:17 | declared Silesian as the first language , 236,588 as the first language, 187,372 as the only language, while 467,4,145 people

2:15:31 | declared the use of the Silesian language in home contacts.

2:15:37 | Ladies and Gentlemen, these are numbers and

2:15:43 | facts, facts that I can and who provide

2:15:52 | the use of their language with statutory privileges resulting from this Ladies and Gentlemen, because this is what must finally happen so that Silesians can

2:16:02 | use bilingual boards If this is what they expect, they can develop,

2:16:09 | protect and preserve their language, so that there are

2:16:14 | books, magazines or perks in

2:16:23 | cultural institutions, so that they can be finally,

2:16:29 | new radio or television programs so that

2:16:35 | places related to identity and culture can be protected, so that libraries can be run.

2:16:42 | After all, it is so obvious that

2:16:51 | if high school graduates wanted to be able to take the high school leaving exam in the Silesian language,

2:16:57 | all this is achieved by this innovation and such a prosaic thing. even the participation of

2:17:03 | two representatives in the joint commission of the government and national and ethnic minorities over the last 8 years, there was no will, there was no will, but in those of you who

2:17:16 | are sitting on the mezzanine today, when you look at our deliberations,

2:17:22 | determination and persistence have never been lost, never when we had the opportunity with the President

2:17:27 | . be in Silesia When we were talking about all these problems, then they declared that we would restore normality and dignity

2:17:38 | to Poles who speak Silesian, who want to talk about it, want

2:17:44 | to remember it, want to be proud of it, and that is why Ladies and Gentlemen, on behalf of the club of the Polish people’s party, I would like to assure you that

2:17:54 | our entire club of the Polish people’s party, which already has 129 years of history,

2:18:03 | will vote for this bill, Ladies and Gentlemen, in order to restore this dignity to you and

2:18:09 | I hope that the President of the Republic of Poland will also listen to this voice and sign this bill, amending the act, Ladies and Gentlemen,

2:18:19 | I am here and I know what I mean how much it means to you and I hope it will be a success thank you thank you very much ladies

2:18:31 | Member Welcome, MP Wanda Nowicka, parliamentary club

2:18:39 | of the left Dear Speaker of the House, I would like to express my great

2:18:46 | satisfaction as the chairwoman of the committee on national ethnic minorities

2:18:51 | that the Committee adopted with a huge majority of votes, although not without a heated discussion, a bill

2:19:02 | introducing the recognition of the Silesian

2:19:12 | gods who have been fighting for the right to recognize the language for years. Silesian as a

2:19:18 | regional language and the left has always supported these aspirations and

2:19:26 | we have always been in favor of recognizing the Silesian language as a

2:19:32 | regional language. This means that thanks to this there will be state funds to

2:19:41 | support this language for learning the language at school and for promoting the language in the

2:19:47 | public media. it is extremely important and necessary that this language continues

2:19:52 | to develop and that the language also gains a lot of recognition and

2:20:00 | is appreciated as an equivalent language that

2:20:05 | functions in Poland. I can never understand why Law and Justice is so afraid and so

2:20:13 | reluctant to recognize the language. Silesian as a regional language, don’t be afraid,

2:20:21 | Silesians are really Poles and they also have the right to have

2:20:27 | all the rights that all Poles and Polish women enjoy in this country, don’t

2:20:32 | be afraid of national minorities, you have a problem with minorities in general,

2:20:39 | Silesians with their fight for recognition of their own cultural and

2:20:46 | linguistic identity, they deserved to finally be recognized as full citizens of our country, but at the same time, for their

2:20:58 | identity and language to be recognized and supported by the

2:21:04 | Polish state. I am also glad, as an elected MP in Silesia, that everything

2:21:11 | indicates that the language this will finally be recognized as a regional language and will receive

2:21:20 | support from all of us, from the parliament, from the state, and

2:21:26 | will continue to develop not only not only for Silesians but also

2:21:32 | for the whole of Poland because linguistic diversity, cultural diversity, this is

2:21:40 | our wealth that we should protect and support Thank you very much and we don’t have

2:21:46 | to be afraid of it. Thank you very much. Maciej, the

2:21:53 | left parliamentary club, Madam Speaker, High Chamber, 9 years ago, at the first

2:21:59 | founding congress of the party, when we met in a no longer existing skyscraper in Warsaw, we adopted the first two political resolutions in

2:22:08 | the history of the party and one of the of them was the resolution to recognize the Silesian language as a regional language and the Silesians as an ethnic minority. Since then,

2:22:17 | many years have passed, due to the news of this Polish formation, which is extremely hostile to

2:22:23 | the aspirations of the Silesians. But during this time, Silesian women and men have been consistently

2:22:29 | fighting for their rights, for the recognition of the language and for recognition of them as I

2:22:35 | consistently strengthen the national minority and the result is that today, in more friendly

2:22:42 | political circumstances, we are proceeding with this bill, which results from the simple fact

2:22:48 | that Silesians live in Poland, they have their own language, they have their own identity, they have their expectations towards the Polish state, but here I think it

2:22:59 | is It’s a good time to turn to those who are not yet convinced and, above all, to turn to the person in whose hands the fate of this bill

2:23:07 | rests today, because I assume that the Polish Parliament will adopt it with a significant majority of votes

2:23:12 | , i.e. to the President of Poland, Andrzej Duda. Mr. President, there is really nothing to worry

2:23:18 | about. fear of recognizing the Silesian language as a regional language will strengthen Poland Poland

2:23:24 | will be stronger with its diversity fear of recognizing the rights of the

2:23:29 | Silesian minority this is a sign of weakness A diverse Poland is a strong Poland just like

2:23:36 | the Polish economy thanks to the fact that it is diversified it resists all possible crises the same Polish culture Polish society

2:23:45 | will be stronger if it recognizes the right of its minorities, including

2:23:51 | the Silesian one, the right to a language, but in the future, I also believe, the right to recognize the Silesians as an ethnic minority. Thank you very much, I invite you, Mr.

2:24:03 | Roman FR parliamentary club, Confederation. Please, Mr. MEP. Dear Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, the position of the Polish Language Council was

2:24:13 | clear, my topic Tec the passage is quite clear

2:24:20 | , it is part of the Silesian language, of course, it is not there. It is part of the dialect of the Polish language, the speech of the native inhabitants of Silesia, considered

2:24:29 | was and is considered by probably all Polish linguists to be a dialect of the Polish language covering many different dialects in the speech of Silesians, we will not find any

2:24:38 | major grammatical features that would not occur in parallel, whether in Lesser Poland or Greater Poland, there is no codification of orthography, the status of the speech

2:24:48 | of Silesians should depend on how the Silesians themselves treat but also on how it is perceived by users of the general Polish language,

2:24:57 | the speech of Silesians is also considered by users of the Polish language in Silesia for its territorial variety, the authors of this absurd revolution

2:25:07 | do not hide the fact that for them it is a thoroughly political matter and that it is

2:25:12 | only the first stage in further struggles But what about MEP

2:25:18 | Kochut First we need Silesian as a regional language

2:25:23 | , then regardless of whether President Duda signs the bill or not, as the new left, we will submit a bill regarding the recognition of Silesians as an

2:25:31 | ethnic minority, it will definitely happen this year Mrs. Marshal, this man is once again disturbing the MP’s performance of his

2:25:43 | mandate. Mr. Speaker, please carry out your

2:25:49 | mandate. This is a scandal, Mr. Marshal. People from the gallery are bothering me,

2:25:59 | the spectators. That’s how it will be, Mr. Speaker, I am asking for the Marshal

2:26:05 | to conduct the meeting and as far as I remember, no one has ever been bothered by applause while

2:26:11 | making statements. Please continue your statement. Okay, I

2:26:17 | ‘ll let you finish your statement. Kohut says I don’t know what the effect will be if there is a vote in the future on

2:26:24 | recognizing Silesians as an ethnic minority, but I have no doubts that the president will definitely not sign this bill next

2:26:32 | year. after the presidential elections We will start collecting signatures for the citizens’ bill on the recognition of Silesians and Kashubians as

2:26:41 | ethnic minorities. Both Kochut and the venerable woman Monika Rosa spoke in May 21

2:26:48 | at a press conference in Warsaw, open with this text, about declaring the so- called Silesian nationality. It is a dispute at the level legal, political

2:26:57 | and journalistic, which has been going on basically since the 1990s and which speaks of the antagonistic

2:27:03 | attitude of Silesian organizations towards Polishness, the Silesian autonomy movement has played a key role in this respect for years, as Professor

2:27:11 | Mirosława Siuciak from the University of Silesia in Katowice wrote in Raś’s demands for the creation of an independent from the

2:27:19 | Polish state of the region under the name of Obeszle, language issues are also used

2:27:24 | to emphasize the cultural and national distinctiveness of Silesians, referring to the German name of the region, referring to Prussian

2:27:32 | symbolism and denying the pro-Polish behavior of Silesians during the KFU culture and the Silesian Uprisings give rise to a sharp conflict with the patriotic

2:27:42 | part of the community Silesia, but also other regions of the country. See, for example, reports from the so-called autonomy marches.

2:27:51 | Particularly striking is the presence of German flags and, for example, the Basque countries as a symbol of separatism, the purpose of the composition of the Polish state is

2:28:00 | all too visible and let me quote one sentence from such

2:28:07 | a document. What is it? it is signed on July 29, 2019 it is

2:28:14 | a declaration of the Silesian Electoral Agreement, in the text I read it convinced

2:28:20 | that the Silesian voice should resound loudly and more effectively in the Polish Parliament, we are establishing the Silesian Electoral Agreement which,

2:28:29 | representing the signatories, will decide on the formula of our participation in the upcoming

2:28:34 | elections to the Sejm and Senate of the Republic of Poland we want to represent all Upper Silesians living in our voivodeship and who is the

2:28:43 | signatory, there are four organizations there: the Silesian Regional Party,

2:28:50 | the Silesian Autonomy Movement, the socio-cultural society

2:28:55 | of the Germans of the Silesian Voivodeship and the German Community, reconciliation and

2:29:02 | the future What is particularly vile We are witnesses of the cynical

2:29:08 | appropriation of the Silesian issue by the extreme left but Cysorz is naked,

2:29:14 | Mr. Kochut, don’t hold your head. Just sit down and live

2:29:20 | for a few years. The centrifugal tendencies of Silesia have been trying to trick us. The extreme left,

2:29:27 | whose representatives from their seats in the gallery disrupted my speech in Sejm both on March 20 and today, which in itself is simply a scandal,

2:29:37 | both Rosa and Kohut bring n Silesia ISN rebuke Presenting

2:29:43 | anti-Silesian values couples What are the traditional Silesian values

2:29:49 | work family and Catholic religion These values were functional,

2:29:55 | strengthened each other, testified about Silesia regional identity and is woven into

2:30:01 | the biography of the region’s inhabitants as something obvious, these values resulted in

2:30:06 | other valued ones, such as truthfulness, modesty, decency, we need to reach not the leftist perspective covering only two or three

2:30:16 | decades, the role of Silesia for Poland, PR will send the end, I counted it after almost a

2:30:23 | minute and a half, so please finish to allow the completion of the important influence of the wonderful, powerful Silesian family of Odrowąż, Bishop of Krakow Iwo,

2:30:32 | Saint Hyacinth, patron of Silesia, and so on and so forth, it is from such a centuries-old perspective, and not from the perspective of the rooster Rosy or Gorzelik,

2:30:40 | that Polish Silesia should be looked at, no, no, Ergo, the entire message of Mr. Kohut and

2:30:46 | his Companions are thoroughly anti-Silesian, however, I am convinced that Marxists,

2:30:52 | communists, denders, climates, supporters of closing down Silesian mines, killing unborn Silesians in the wombs of Silesian mothers,

2:31:04 | anti-Catholicism,

2:31:11 | Popov Thank you for your speech,

2:31:18 | thank you, the last sentence will be cut off because the marshal finished,

2:31:24 | I will end with the slogan of the fans of Silesian football clubs We are from Silesia and ours

2:31:30 | my homeland is Poland, I am moving to reject the bill in its entirety. Thank you, Mr.

2:31:37 | MP. I just wanted to tell you, honorable Mr. MP, that the honorable

2:31:43 | woman has exactly the same mandate as the honorable MP, so I would like to ask you to address yourself to the honorable MP, Mrs. and Mr. MP, let’s take care of it

2:31:54 | let’s take care of it to the MP UTA is also

2:31:59 | an MEP I would like to point out to you once again that applause is not an interruption of your statement and Please do not use this Please do not use this to say that someone

2:32:07 | interrupted you, they added two minutes to your time and I allowed you

2:32:13 | to finish your statement, please do not the seriousness of this chamber and addressing the MPs to their colleagues, honorable woman,

2:32:22 | I am asking you very much for this, this is the MP, this is the MP, I have already asked,

2:32:28 | now Mr. Adam Gomoła, I invite you, independent. Please, please,

2:32:36 | please, please, Mr. Adam Gomoła, Thank you very much, Mrs. Marshal,

2:32:52 | source The Silesian language comes from the events at the Tower of Babel when,

2:32:58 | as we know perfectly well from the Book of Genesis, God distributed languages, divided

2:33:05 | nations, and the Silesians, as hard-working and also modest and withdrawn, stood at the end of

2:33:12 | the queue one day.

2:33:21 | Well, God was so worried, he thought and said, you will be agree as I do,

2:33:33 | and of course I tell the story with a tired eye about this divine language, but

2:33:39 | I think it perfectly reflects what is the attitude of the Silesians to their

2:33:50 | continued recognition by the Polish state that they exist and, in fact, what

2:33:57 | we are doing today during the third reading and voting at this

2:34:02 | session of the Sejm and what will happen in the Senate, where

2:34:09 | this bill will probably be voted on, and also after the president signs

2:34:16 | this bill, because I have no doubt that it will be successful, and finally, for the first time since the Second Polish Republic, Silesians

2:34:25 | will be noticed in the Republic of Poland,

2:34:38 | you say. We answer in Silesian, but when asked

2:34:44 | who you are, we answer Silesians

2:34:51 | and it is obvious that there is no threat to the integrity of the territory

2:34:58 | of the Republic of Poland, Mr. frit, in also allowing

2:35:04 | the citizens of the Republic of Poland to define themselves by the nationality they are and what they

2:35:10 | feel like. because this can be found even in WOS textbooks from

2:35:16 | primary school classes, that nationality is only determined by what you feel inside yourself,

2:35:21 | not by what one or another MP says from the podium in

2:35:27 | the plenary hall And finally, thanks to

2:35:32 | all those people who during this time, when here, taking several dozen different steps, both civic and parliamentary, to

2:35:38 | recognize the Silesian language, who did it themselves in Pęgowa, hundreds of thousands of people

2:35:44 | speak Silesian at home, Silesian is spoken in the homes of hundreds If not

2:35:50 | thousands of people who were involved in codifying, cultivating and promoting Silesian Gothka, a huge thank you because they did the

2:36:01 | work that we have not been able to do here for decades and which is finally

2:36:07 | taking the right track. Thank you very much, thank you very much,

2:36:13 | Mr. Marek Jakubiak, Mr. parliamentary kukis 15 yes yes yes

2:36:20 | Dear Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, I am from Warsaw and I would like

2:36:28 | very much for us to recognize the Warsaw language as

2:36:34 | a local language, I am from Greater Poland, please recognize my dialects as dialects

2:36:40 | of the Kashubian national minority Please, Mazovia, please, please,

2:36:50 | a country that consists of various kinds of nations of people who they grew up

2:36:56 | together, they shape their worldview, their homeland, and of course I can

2:37:02 | say that I am from Warsaw, but my homeland is Poland, but that

2:37:08 | doesn’t change anything. I am a Pole, first of all, then a Warsaw resident. And I guess that’s the end of the matter. Do you think that whatever

2:37:17 | is built with good intentions, boor? The road to hell has always been like this and will always be like this. The fact that today you speak just to have someone applaud you

2:37:27 | only proves that you have no spatial imagination. Well, the first step from this podium was said several times today, this is the first step, the second

2:37:36 | step is the recognition of minorities and thirdly, separatist movements will lead to the separation or willingness to separate part of Polish territory, and the one

2:37:45 | who is constantly wearing a yellow tracksuit in this flag recently said that he has Polish citizenship but is not a Pole. If this

2:37:55 | is an authority for you or if it is not for you, it is an exclamation mark in this parliament then who do you represent here,

2:38:02 | the Republic of Poland or the particular interests of social groups that want separatist movements in Poland, we cannot allow such things to happen,

2:38:11 | think, what are you doing to Mrs. Szumilas, she is not here, ladies and gentlemen, I

2:38:18 | grew up in difficult times, like most of us, anyway, but I don’t care I would like to remind you that Silesia had it worse than anyone else in Poland. If anyone in

2:38:26 | Poland wanted to go shopping, they went there. If you had to buy skis, you had to go there, and it would be best if you had contacts in a mining

2:38:33 | shop, a fridge and a washing machine were not a problem at all. If it was a punishment for you in those times, I’m asking what

2:38:42 | a punishment is, you were always treated specially. But not because you are Silesians, but because you worked hard,

2:38:50 | that you were constantly finding out that miners were dying in the mines so that others could stay warm, that’s it. respect for you and not that you call your homeland

2:39:00 | hajmat hajmat, that is a German word

2:39:10 | Thank you, I heard from the Speaker of Niedziela that she made an appointment with Mr. Braun for a formal motion which is supposed to last one minute, she is very welcome, Madam

2:39:20 | Speaker, please tell the Speaker of Niedziela to refrain

2:39:27 | . from the linguistic directives that Marshal Niedziela regularly addresses to MPs,

2:39:35 | if she wants to instruct MPs on what words to use. Do

2:39:41 | phraseological units have the right to citizenship in the High House? Then, Marshal Niedziela,

2:39:50 | a draft amendment to the rules of procedure of the Sejm, should present an annex of preferred words

2:39:57 | and prohibited words, permitted and prohibited expressions, and let

2:40:02 | the High Chamber discuss if he adopts such an erroneous change in the regulations, it will be

2:40:09 | a topic for further interesting discussion, but as long as there are no such changes in

2:40:15 | the regulations, Mrs. Speaker Niedziela would kindly take advantage of the opportunity to

2:40:20 | sit quietly when members of the Sejm who do not use universally recognized words are speaking. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for your questions.

2:40:32 | 10 members of parliament, I set a time J minute Please, MP

2:40:37 | Grzegorz Braun

2:40:45 | Confederation in

2:40:51 | my Silesian language has been very clearly marked a number of times, a further

2:41:00 | broader perspective, first the language, then

2:41:05 | the minority de jure and then autonomy, and therefore the fragmentation of the Polish state in

2:41:14 | its current administrative territorial shape because in 2010 year, the Silesian autonomy movement

2:41:25 | presented its strategy under the simple, unpretentious name of autonomy

2:41:33 | 2020. I see that, ladies and gentlemen, you are having some delays in the implementation of your

2:41:40 | strategy, but because you are active in activities for this bad

2:41:47 | project that we are working on, when will you pull out these next

2:41:53 | projects from your bosom and when will you want the Sejm to take further steps towards

2:41:59 | the abyss that the Polish state is heading if we agree to approve its

2:42:05 | territorial incoherence Thank you, Madam Speaker, Mr. Witold Tumanowicz

2:42:10 | Confederation, I don’t see you MP, MP Łukasz ściborowski, Civic Coalition, I don’t see you either, are you an MP,

2:42:30 | please, thank you, Madam Speaker, dear chamber, On March 20 this year, here in the Sejm,

2:42:36 | we took an important historical step towards establishing the Silesian language as a regional language during the first reading of the parliamentary bill,

2:42:46 | they expressed as the Sejm consented to the project and the project was rejected. In

2:42:52 | the first reading, it was already met with great appreciation from the community that fought for the Silesian language, especially in my place

2:43:02 | of birth in Silesia, this community has been striving for years with determination to recognize Silesian Gothic as a regional language, this language is

2:43:10 | an important element both the Silesian culture and tradition of the region where

2:43:18 | the bun is used opinion of the parliamentary committee of national and ethnic minorities Today I am convinced that, even despite the resistance of some political circles,

2:43:27 | which was heard here in the room, we are getting closer to adopting the Silesian language as a regional language, we also need to prepare for the challenges and opportunities that this

2:43:36 | Act provides, especially when it comes to teaching and promoting the Silesian language, which is why I have a question about the first insight into

2:43:44 | organizational possibilities, especially acquiring substantive staff teaching the Silesian language, what resources we have at our disposal today and

2:43:51 | what possible suggestions are made by individual communes as organizers of the network of educational institutions in in my area Thank you very much, I invite Mr.

2:43:59 | Janusz Kowalski Law and Justice, Mr. Marshal, ladies and gentlemen

2:44:05 | , I am Polish and I have Polish duties as a member of the Sejm of the Republic of Poland, as a Pole, I will vote for the defense of Poland and the Polish

2:44:12 | language, the Silesian language is the Polish language with a dialect of the beautiful Polish language and all those who, like the German minority which suddenly

2:44:21 | changed its name to Silesian local government officials after the elections, or the open

2:44:26 | German option from the Civic Platform, want to divide the Polish nation, divide the Polish language in order to ensure that the goals

2:44:35 | of German policy regarding undermining the unitarity of the Polish State are implemented, we, ladies and gentlemen, We do not agree to this. Those who are Poles

2:44:44 | will vote to reject this absurd, harmful anti-Polish bill. Those who declare themselves as people who want to fight against the unitarity of the Polish state

2:44:52 | and implement the actual German policy of dividing the Polish nation with the civic platform at the forefront will vote for this bill if this bill is adopted. passed here,

2:45:01 | I am convinced that the President of the Republic of Poland will veto this harmful bill, will protect the Republic of Poland of the Polish

2:45:07 | National Interest, thank you, thank you, I invite MP Iwona Kozłowska, Civic Coalition,

2:45:19 | Dear Madam Speaker, Your Honor, I have great respect for

2:45:25 | the tradition of the Silesians and the recognition of the Silesian language as a regional language. However, every social group needs support in

2:45:33 | communication and equal treatment is key to building a fair and open community, so I would like, and please don’t be surprised, to remind a

2:45:44 | special group of people, people who have been talking for years, about the universal availability of

2:45:50 | Polish Sign Language, which is a fundamental tool for them.

2:45:56 | Communication, Polish Sign Language is recognized by deaf people as their first natural language, and only the second language is Polish. Unfortunately, so far

2:46:05 | sign language has not received the status of a language, nor is it a subject of teaching in

2:46:10 | centers and schools for people with hearing disabilities, and yet these students are deaf students. implement the same core curriculum

2:46:22 | as their hearing peers, I would very much like and dream on behalf of deaf people that we would start working on the Act on Polish

2:46:34 | Sign Language and that this language would become a minority language in the future

2:46:40 | linguistic Thank you very much, thank you, thank you and I invite Mrs. Ewa Kołodziej, Civic Coalition,

2:46:50 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, the MPs have blown me away. I would like

2:46:57 | to introduce you to the poison and the shad. I would like to tell you that

2:47:03 | you should not be afraid of Silesian goths, just like you shouldn’t be afraid of the poison and

2:47:10 | the shad in the past, because they are

2:47:18 | nice creatures and characters. from fairy tales, today there are books about Bebok, there are cutouts,

2:47:26 | there are various gadgets in Katowice’s Nikiszowiec, there is a special

2:47:32 | Kryska store there, you can buy all sorts of nice things, Silesian Beboks,

2:47:38 | because Silesian Bebok promotes Silesia, you can meet Beboks in various

2:47:44 | corners of Silesia, and I will promote Silesia with these Silesian Beboks. Silesian

2:47:50 | Goth because I want to break the spell of Silesian Goth because you can’t be afraid of Silesian Goth, Silesian

2:48:01 | Gotkowo, these are very nice creatures, there’s really nothing to be afraid of.

2:48:07 | Thank you very much, MP. I invite Mr. Marcin, he leaves Law and Justice,

2:48:22 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, I have the honor to represent Greater Poland in the Parliament . our culture, traditions, we also have our own language But we know that our language

2:48:32 | is Polish, that we are Poles, I wanted to ask if the proposed changes,

2:48:38 | what is the position of the Polish Language Council regarding what you are proposing, thank you, thank you, I invite Mr. Norbert Kaczmarczyk, Law and

2:48:46 | Justice, Honorable Speaker, Honorable Chamber during during this

2:48:53 | debate, the following words were said to members of parliament who are opponents of this act:

2:49:00 | you are fighting against Silesia, you are afraid of

2:49:05 | diversity, don’t be afraid of Silesians, Silesians should have rights like every

2:49:12 | Silesian Pole , we can’t conclude from these words that

2:49:22 | it is this side that is afraid of building a community or it is precisely these

2:49:29 | people who say such words that do not discriminate against Silesians, saying and

2:49:34 | undermining their Polishness. Well, if any of you in this room

2:49:41 | thinks that Silesians are not full citizens of our country or do not have

2:49:47 | the same rights as everyone else Well, people who went out this rostrum and

2:49:52 | accused the opponents of the bill of being afraid that they are discriminating against Silesians,

2:49:58 | they are doing it themselves, so ladies and gentlemen, let’s be clear, Silesianness is Polishness And Poland is

2:50:05 | our community, do not discriminate against Silesians by saying that they are worse than

2:50:11 | all Poles We are all one big community and the state unfortunately divides us into better and worse Thank you very much,

2:50:21 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Member, today we are working on a project that Silesians have been waiting for – recognition of the status of the Silesian language. This is undoubtedly a step in the right

2:50:30 | direction, but I also wanted it to be said on this occasion that a regional language is not everything. Together we know that diversity is a treasure. which should be

2:50:40 | celebrated that the only country built on the acceptance of diversity is the Poland

2:50:45 | that we will all want to build and defend, we will all stand behind it in

2:50:51 | my constituency in the Opole Voivodeship the Silesian minority outnumbers the Silesian minority so strongly with the Opole region the German minority the Silesians other

2:50:59 | ethnic minorities They therefore deserve such only recognition and support, so I will ask a very specific question about the next step on this path and

2:51:09 | I am asking about it as a Pole and as a Silesian when Silesians will be recognized as

2:51:14 | an ethnic minority Thank you very much thank you I invite you

2:51:20 | Jakubiak Kukis

2:51:25 | 15 To be honest, I am a bit sorry because I have never I have heard in

2:51:32 | the history of my life any word that was spoken or expressed in any negative context about Silesia or Silesia.

2:51:43 | I feel very bad about it because today very false words were spoken here, perhaps with good

2:51:52 | intentions, but ladies and gentlemen, Silesia has no better than Warsaw, in my

2:51:58 | first statement I said When it was better when Silesia had it better, but

2:52:04 | it is obvious that Silesia was mistreated by the Germans and Poles after World War II, Mazovia was treated identically, it was also fought and

2:52:13 | shot in the back of the head until 1956 yes the same way as in Silesia,

2:52:19 | all citizens were treated, we were members of one family wronged by the West, and let me just say that today Janusz Kowalski quoted Dmowski. Me too

2:52:29 | we are different, we come from different parts of Poland, we have different interests,

2:52:34 | but we have one goal in common, this goal is the homeland, not the chajmat,

2:52:43 | the homeland, the list of questioning MPs ends with MP Witold Zanowicz confederation

2:52:48 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, anyone who was not yet convinced that

2:52:53 | there is no Silesian language is after MP Fric’s speeches from this podium a few weeks ago and now, he should not have his doubts, he should not

2:53:02 | dispel his doubts, the parliament cannot allow itself to be terrorized by a radical

2:53:11 | like Mr. have learned, let’s not forcibly destroy

2:53:20 | the beautiful Polish diversity, at the same time, do not

2:53:27 | encourage the Polish taxpayer to introduce such a costly and harmful social experiment, this social experiment

2:53:36 | is in the interest of the Silesian autonomy movement, the Silesian regional party, the cultural social society of the Germans, the Silesian Voivodeship, the German

2:53:43 | community, reconciliation and the future, the Russian MP was reading this declaration these are the ones who at the moment have an interest in fueling these autonomous

2:53:53 | separatist sentiments that we cannot agree on. Thank you very much, although I have already closed the list of MPs asking questions, I am opening it a bit

2:54:01 | for MP Barbara Dolniak from the Civic Coalition, but I will ask right away if there are MPs in the room who want

2:54:08 | to speak again before I close the list effectively, this is the time to add my name, MP, please, I knew you were so unforgiving,

2:54:19 | Mr MP,

2:54:25 | I asked, you will probably be happy that I spoke, I was

2:54:31 | born in Bytom and for many years I lived in Silesia as a young person,

2:54:37 | as an adult I live in Będzin, i.e. in the Zagłębie region, for years

2:54:46 | we were separated by the Yew River, we still laugh about passports.

2:54:52 | How do they come from Silesia to the Zagłębie region and vice versa, but these

2:54:59 | days it is difficult for me to use the words of antagonisms but a certain diversity,

2:55:04 | important diversity, they change, we are open, we are for each other, sympy, with each other,

2:55:19 | the identity of the inhabitants who live in a specific region, therefore,

2:55:26 | even though I live in the basin, I will be happy to vote for this motion, for this project, thank you very much, Mrs. MP, and I invite Mr.

2:55:35 | Andrzej Gawron from Law and Justice

2:55:48 | there is beauty, it is absolutely different from place to place, from region to region in Silesia,

2:55:55 | it is different in Rybnik, it is different in Lubliniec, it is different to cope with the forest, and so is

2:56:01 | the power of codification, it really is a very bad solution, you just turned it into a political project to get some percentage votes, more

2:56:10 | elections, nothing more, I think it’s hypocrisy, you want to expel

2:56:15 | religion from schools, students should have it easier, it was better

2:56:21 | to teach religion in classrooms, and you want to force the Silesian language into schools,

2:56:27 | it’s really a bad idea. Thank you very much and I invite you to speak. Secretary of State at the Ministry of the Interior and

2:56:36 | Administration, Tomasz

2:56:44 | Szymański Thank you very much, Madam Marshal, I have an internal impression that the debate

2:56:52 | we held both during the first reading and a serious debate with the participation of circles representing Silesian entities,

2:57:02 | represent culture, language, that this debate was carried out and concluded

2:57:08 | all your concerns about granting a status to the Silesian language is obvious that it is not

2:57:14 | because the state believes in its imaginary reality that the Silesian language is a contribution to separation from Polishness, we tried

2:57:23 | to explain to you, dear MP, that the Silesian language simply belongs to the Silesians

2:57:29 | because it clearly follows from the content census, as you gentlemen know very well, we have opinions of undisputed scientific authorities

2:57:37 | who clearly express their views on this status. Whatever it is, our commitment is our commitment, it is unquestionable and we will not hesitate

2:57:46 | to implement the project. Recognizing Silesian as a regional language, we also uphold this commitment of the Ministry of Affairs There will be internal administration

2:57:54 | supported you in what we started, thanking the MP for the initiative. Thank you MPs for accepting the assumptions. I also thank you for the

2:58:03 | long-term contribution to ensure that this bill will finally be able to meet your expectations. Thank you very much, Mr. Minister

2:58:12 | , and I invite the committee’s rapporteur, MP Monika. Rosa

2:58:21 | , Mrs. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Mrs. Minister, Honorable

2:58:27 | Chamber Poland is a community is a community of diverse people We differ in

2:58:33 | our views on what would be said in this room We differ in our faith, which is obvious

2:58:39 | We differ in the languages we break in We differ in our history, identity and

2:58:46 | sensitivity Our role as parliamentarians is to make for Poland to truly be this community, to

2:58:57 | give its citizens a chance to respect the traditions,

2:59:03 | history, identity, language of their ancestors Isn’t the greatest value to

2:59:09 | know our history, to understand our history, to cultivate our language Is

2:59:16 | n’t it the role of the state institution Isn’t it to also Silesians Silesians Silesians pay

2:59:22 | taxes to be able to have the support of state institutions and this will be a huge contribution to

2:59:28 | nurturing the Silesian language and developing it to give the feeling that

2:59:35 | Silesians Silesians can feel good here but it will also be a huge contribution to the sense of

2:59:41 | community of diversity CA Polish countries ce

2:59:47 | kas has become less Poland has not only made Kashubians able to learn their

2:59:53 | language, it has made Poland more diverse, it will make citizens

2:59:58 | feel good in their country, will the Silesian language make Poland

3:00:04 | less Poland will not make it more diverse, it will make it will be

3:00:10 | more interesting, it will make citizens’ well-being better, the citizen will simply be better, it will make it so

3:00:17 | that children will be able to go to school and learn their language, learn their own region, that there will be more translations of poems,

3:00:26 | examples, that Silesian will be able to be taught, that maybe bilingual boards will appear in some towns, that there will be more plays in

3:00:36 | Silesian, maybe more philosophical treatises, this is the value of the language,

3:00:42 | I’m worried about countries. I’m worried about fears because that’s what the minister said, entrenching ourselves in our own United States.

3:00:51 | Come to the show about Silesia and meet people in Silesian who

3:00:56 | have been fighting for years or the Kashubian language made some part of Poland become autonomous or the Silesian language will make it happen not whether it is about any

3:01:07 | German state interests Mania on the German-anti-German issue

3:01:20 | Silesia And who left these halls not wanting to hear the answers to their questions whether

3:01:27 | it is respect for Silesia to Silesians up to half a million citizens citizens who

3:01:33 | want recognition of their language is it respect for diversity for public debate there is no threat resulting from the recognition of Silesian

3:01:42 | regional language there is no threat there was no Kasia regional moan and we can

3:01:49 | listen to the opinions of linguists Polish language council as the name suggests is the Polish language council. Listen to your

3:01:58 | position of the Silesian language council that was formed in Silesia. Listen to

3:02:04 | scientists from the University of Silesia. Listen to linguists, they will tell you how Silesian differs from the

3:02:14 | Polish language. But you know perfectly well that this is not a philological issue, that not such you need arguments

3:02:23 | opponents of the recognition of the Silesian language are simply opponents of recognizing diversity opponents of the understanding that the Polish state belongs to all

3:02:32 | citizens, that all citizens have the right to feel good in it That’s why I thank you for the fact that in this Sejm there is a majority from the

3:02:42 | Civic Coalition of the Polish Left PS the Silesian language has become a regional language. Thank you very much, MP,

3:02:54 | I am closing the discussion in the discussion. A motion has been submitted to reject the bill in its entirety. I propose that the Sejm should not refer this bill to the committee again

3:03:03 | if I hear no objections. I will consider that the Sejm has accepted the proposal and I will not

3:03:08 | hear any objections until the third reading. We will vote on the draft bill in a block of votes. Before we move on to the next point, I would like to greet

3:03:18 | the young people from the 7th Secondary School in Wrocław sitting in the gallery and High School for the Dialogue of Cultures in Heim who are staying at the invitation of MP Tomasz

3:03:27 | Zimoch I greet you warmly and welcome you to the Parliament and we are starting to consider point three of the agenda:

3:03:35 | the report of the Social Policy and Family Committee on the government’s bill amending the Act on Social Assistance and certain other acts, forms number 274

3:03:44 | and 305, Madam Speaker, before

3:04:05 | the committee reports Dear Madam Speaker, High Minister of the Sejm, the Marshal of the Sejm,

3:04:11 | on March 29 this year, referred the government bill and certain other road bills No.

3:04:21 | 274 to the Social Policy and Family Committee for first reading, the committee

3:04:26 | conducted the first reading of the government bill from Form No. 274 Agnieszka Dziemianowicz Bąk presented the justification for the draft act to the committee of the Minister of Family,

3:04:36 | Labor and Social Policy. The aim of the draft is to enable the Council of Ministers to adopt a government program

3:04:44 | for co-financing wages and costs

3:04:50 | , including social assistance in organizational units of Social Assistance run by local government units or on their

3:05:00 | behalf in order to reduce financial consequences of future programs for municipalities, co-financing of up to 100% from the state budget is planned;

3:05:09 | additionally, it is proposed that the financing of which all projects will be

3:05:23 | discussed by the public and the detailed rules for the implementation of the proposed program of the Council

3:05:29 | of Ministers was attended by representatives of Social Welfare employees, social organizations and

3:05:39 | local government units, the commission

3:05:49 | the committee unanimously requests the adoption of the attached draft bill by the Sejm to prevent possible interpretative doubts regarding the possible forms of payment of the subsidy in question. Thank you

3:05:59 | . Thank you very much,

3:06:06 | Madam MP, the Sejm has agreed that during the discussion on this point of the agenda it will listen to written testimony from the names of the oad club,

3:06:30 | Madam Speaker, Madam Minister, Honorable Minister of the Sejm. I have the honor to present

3:06:35 | the position of the Law and Justice parliamentary club on the government bill on amending the Act on

3:06:47 | the report of the Social Policy and Family Committee, form number 305, the draft bill under consideration changes the wording of three Acts, the Act of March 12,

3:06:56 | 2004 on social assistance, the Act of February 4, 2011 year on the care

3:07:03 | of children up to three years of age and the Act of June 9, 2011 on

3:07:11 | supporting families and the foster care system, according to the proposed amendment, the Council of Ministers, by way of a resolution, will be able to adopt a government

3:07:20 | program for co-financing the salaries and costs of contributions from the salaries of employees specified in this program employed in

3:07:28 | organizational units of Social Assistance run by local government units or at their request, in nurseries or children’s clubs

3:07:35 | run by local government units, and day carers employed by local government units in

3:07:44 | organizational units supporting the family and foster care system of local government units or at their request, addressees programs

3:07:54 | will only be available to employees employed on the basis of an employment relationship,

3:07:59 | remuneration subsidies will be paid in the form of an incentive supplement, it will not constitute the basis for calculating other compensation benefits or payments

3:08:09 | resulting from other regulations, including additional annual remuneration and annual bonuses, co-financing will be equal to the average monthly cost of living

3:08:20 | in the Nursing Home Social, the source of financing for this program will be a targeted subsidy from the state budget, according to the draft act, the commune will receive additional

3:08:30 | funds that it will be able to use to increase the remuneration of employees employed in its units. The act is to enter into force after

3:08:40 | 14 days from the date of announcement of the Law Club and Justice of

3:08:46 | the Pope. at the same time, on behalf of the Law and Justice parliamentary club, I am submitting

3:08:57 | amendments. Their aim is to introduce the possibility of granting financial resources also to administrative employees working for

3:09:06 | organizational units of Social Welfare, nurseries or clubs. children in organizational units supporting the family and

3:09:14 | the foster care system run by local governments or on their

3:09:19 | behalf, as well as those employed in those institutions that are run by entities that are a church or other religious organization referred to in

3:09:28 | article two, point pier of the Act of May 17,

3:09:33 | 1989 on guarantees of Freedom of conscience and religion, thank you. Thank you

3:09:40 | very much, MP. I invite you, MP Marek, parliamentary club, Civic Coalition

3:09:48 | , High Chamber, the Act on amending the Social Assistance Act and certain

3:09:54 | other acts introduced by the Council of Ministers is being processed to enable

3:09:59 | the creation of government wage subsidy programs. The program will cover all costs. employees specified in the program, and therefore

3:10:09 | not only the amount of funding but also contributions due on the amount, which as a result will not in any way burden employers

3:10:19 | of employing institutions, and for employed social workers,

3:10:24 | employees of institutions supporting the family and foster care, employees of nurseries, children’s clubs, it will be a real

3:10:34 | addition, the act covers individuals organizational Social Assistance Therefore, these

3:10:40 | will include, among others, Social Welfare centers , regional social welfare homes, Social Policy Center, District

3:10:50 | Family Assistance Center, Social Services Center in the event that a social assistance center was transformed pursuant to the Act of July 19, 2019,

3:11:03 | specialist counseling facilities, including family Support Center and

3:11:09 | Crisis Intervention Center this bill will help improve

3:11:15 | the standard of living of social workers, wages will finally at least

3:11:20 | partially compensate for the hard work performed by these people, as Law and

3:11:26 | Justice took care of social workers, their salaries can be seen by our government processing this bill within four

3:11:35 | months since its establishment, it has been proving that what distinguishes

3:11:41 | us from our predecessors are real, consistent actions in the field of social policy, not lofty phrases, constant promises that

3:11:51 | remained unfulfilled. Dear MPs, the demographic data leave us with no illusions,

3:12:02 | the aging society will need professional specialized care And this will involve significant staffing needs in

3:12:12 | the area of Social Welfare workers. If we want young people after studies

3:12:18 | to decide to work in this profession, we must decently and adequately remunerate

3:12:23 | these people so that they can work for another person, which, after all, involves a very

3:12:28 | heavy burden. both physical and mental, it did not have to involve

3:12:33 | sacrifices. Now I will mention the costs. The cost of the previously mentioned subsidies will not

3:12:43 | additionally burden local governments because the funds will come 100% from the

3:12:50 | state budget. We do not hand out boxes, which is important. In the case of people

3:12:56 | employed in social welfare homes, subsidies for the remuneration will not be included in the average monthly cost of maintaining

3:13:04 | a resident in a Social Welfare Home, and this will not affect the amount of

3:13:10 | subsidies incurred by a family member of a person placed in such

3:13:16 | a center, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the parliamentary club

3:13:21 | of the Civic Coalition, I am requesting the adoption of this act, please take care for

3:13:27 | the future of our citizen and citizens by caring for the people on whom this

3:13:33 | future will depend, thank you, thank you, MP, I invite you

3:13:38 | , MP Wioletta Tomczak, Parliamentary Club Poland 2050 TR dear

3:13:50 | Dear Madam Speaker, Minister, dear gentlemen and ladies, MPs

3:13:58 | , we hear publicly about Social Welfare workers

3:14:05 | Most often, when a tragedy happens,

3:14:19 | Inter Why didn’t they prevent it, we are not interested in

3:14:24 | the working conditions of PR of Social Welfare workers on a daily basis, because each of us has

3:14:31 | our own problems, but the state must finally take care of it so that Social Welfare workers, among others, have conditions

3:14:50 | that are physically dangerous Most social care workers

3:14:56 | earn not only bad but very bad salaries, even though they are people

3:15:03 | educated with various competences because they have to be eyes and

3:15:10 | ears,

3:15:18 | these are not people who go to this job to earn money, these are people with

3:15:24 | a sense of mission above average empathy. Of course, it happens

3:15:30 | that there are people who do not fulfill their duties, just like in any

3:15:35 | professional group but many Polish citizens, especially the weakest or

3:15:41 | youngest ones, can count on help only thanks to Social Welfare employees. They, in turn, can only count on us, that

3:15:52 | on behalf of the state we will see the need to improve their working conditions and

3:15:57 | raise their remuneration to a fair level, the effectiveness of state tools such as medicine. Kamilek or the standards

3:16:05 | for the protection of minors that came into force in February will depend on whether we will

3:16:21 | also have Social Welfare workers. In

3:16:27 | this act, we also focus on guardians of children under the age of three in nurseries,

3:16:33 | children’s clubs or day care workers employed by local government units. Each of us

3:16:48 | spend time outside the care of us parents and each of us wants to ensure that children

3:16:55 | brought up in foster care are also taken care of in the best possible way

3:17:01 | and that there are a sufficient number of these foster families without the financial support of the currently functioning system, maybe

3:17:18 | territorial, but in the October 15 coalition we are aware that the finances of local governments have been severely wounded over the last 8 years, hence

3:17:29 | the program implemented in the amendment to the Act is a band-aid on a deep wound in the

3:17:35 | social welfare system. The Polish state must take care of its officials and

3:17:41 | employees because it is in their hands that guarantees rest in practice.

3:17:50 | Klub Polska 203 will support this amendment to the Act. However, we are counting on for the overall strengthening of the social welfare system

3:18:01 | Thank you very much Thank you very much, MP. I invite you, MP, Agnieszka

3:18:06 | Maria Kłopotek, parliamentary club, Polish People’s Party, trze,

3:18:17 | stro, ludowe TR, it is my pleasure to present the committee’s report on the government’s draft act on amending the Act on social welfare and

3:18:26 | certain other acts, the draft has been received to the Sejm on March 22,

3:18:32 | 2024 and was referred to the Social Policy and Family Committee on March 29,

3:18:39 | 2024. The first reading of the

3:18:47 | Social Welfare Committee took place on April 10. It specifies, among others, tasks in the field of social assistance,

3:18:52 | types of social assistance benefits and the principles and the mode of granting them by Social Welfare organizations the principles and mode of control proceedings in the field of

3:19:02 | social assistance Social Assistance is an institution of the State Social Policy aimed at enabling individuals and

3:19:11 | families to overcome difficult life situations that they cannot,

3:19:18 | using their own rights, resources and opportunities Social Assistance supports

3:19:23 | individuals and families in their efforts aimed at meeting the necessary needs and enables them to live in conditions corresponding to

3:19:31 | human dignity. The task of Social Assistance is also to prevent difficult life situations by taking actions aimed at

3:19:40 | making people and families independent in life and integrating

3:19:46 | the Act of March 12, 2004 on social assistance. the change proposed in Article 1 of the draft is

3:19:56 | intended to enable the Council of Ministers to adopt a government program for co-financing the wages and costs of contributions on these wages

3:20:05 | of employees specified in this program employed in organizational units of Social Welfare run by local government units

3:20:13 | or on their behalf in accordance with the proposed regulations,

3:20:19 | co-financing granted under future programs, it must be allocated entirely to increasing the remuneration of

3:20:27 | Social Welfare employees under programs announced on the basis of the proposed regulations.

3:20:32 | The funds available from the program are to be funds directed to employees

3:20:38 | in addition to the funds available to employees under concluded contracts and provisions on minimum wages and the Act.

3:20:46 | Bud Moreover, it is envisaged that co-financing of salaries received under the framework adopted by the Council of Ministers

3:20:53 | programs will not be included in the basis for calculating compensation and other payments resulting from separate regulations, including

3:21:02 | annual remuneration and annual bonuses. Pursuant to Article 22 point 7 of the Act of

3:21:08 | March 12, 2004 on social assistance. The implementation of tasks arising

3:21:14 | from government programs is the responsibility of the voivode, detailed the scope of voivodes’ tasks will be specified in programs adopted on the basis of the proposed

3:21:23 | regulations, at the same time, in order to limit the financial consequences of future programs for municipalities, co-financing of up to 100% from the

3:21:33 | state budget is provided for, the change in the act also applies to care for children up to three years of age,

3:21:39 | the project proposal aims to promote employment in nurseries and children’s clubs and as well as stopping the outflow of

3:21:49 | qualified staff from these institutions to public kindergartens, it is proposed that the commune receives additional funds that it will be able to use to

3:21:57 | increase the remuneration of employees employed in its units in accordance with the proposed regulation, remuneration co-financing

3:22:06 | must be allocated entirely to increasing remuneration employee. Moreover, it is expected that the co-financing of wages will not be included in

3:22:16 | compensation benefits and other payments resulting from separate provisions, including additional annual remuneration and annual bonuses. It is proposed that

3:22:25 | the Draft Act will enter into force after 14 days from its announcement. The proposed regulation is not contrary to the law European Union

3:22:34 | Therefore, the parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the Third Way, taking everything into account, will vote

3:22:43 | for further work on the adoption of this project. Thank you very much, I invite you, Mrs Dorota Olko, the parliamentary club

3:22:57 | of the left, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, I must say that I am speaking today in

3:23:03 | this debate with genuine joy, joy that we not only draw attention to

3:23:09 | the need for pay raises for very important and often underestimated groups, but also for

3:23:16 | a specific solution, a specific project that is supposed to raise their wages, because

3:23:22 | when in January, from this podium, together with my colleagues from

3:23:27 | the party, together with the left-wing club,

3:23:33 | we will give a gift to the Kunów children to three years ago, when OPS employees wrote to me

3:23:39 | complaining about their raises for the public sector, I was afraid that these raises

3:23:45 | would take a long time, and it is simply impossible to wait any longer for these raises. The answer why seems obvious, but since the wages of this

3:23:56 | group have been scrubbed for so long, maybe we need to remind them Why pay rises are

3:24:02 | necessary, the situation of the most sensitive people in need of support depends on the work of this professional group, not just

3:24:16 | women, these are people with higher education , qualified people who perform work that is often very emotionally, mentally and physically taxing.

3:24:25 | This is a job that involves

3:24:30 | enormous responsibility, may depend on the life of a child who is neglected and beaten by its parents depends on her

3:24:40 | . The situation of a senior citizen who is unable to shop for herself. Whether or not

3:24:46 | to prepare a meal depends on her. The situation of people with disabilities or

3:24:52 | people in a health crisis. In a mental health crisis. And Poland

3:24:57 | for this work. Due to this hard work, it currently pays salaries close to

3:25:04 | the minimum wage, i.e. somewhere around PLN 4,300 gross, while the average

3:25:10 | salary in the economy is slowly reaching PLN 8,500 and this means that

3:25:19 | we value this very hard work so much lower, we value it so much lower, we treat it as less

3:25:26 | important than most professions in the economy It is unfair and unfair, such low salaries translate

3:25:36 | , of course, into the fact that there is simply no one to work in these professions, most

3:25:42 | Social Welfare centers do not have enough people to work today, and every vacancy means that you have to wait for help and support

3:25:53 | longer sometimes, unfortunately, it has been processed for too long today. The project gives

3:25:59 | hope for higher wages for social workers, for caregivers of children up to

3:26:05 | three years of age, for caregivers because they are usually also women, and thus for a better quality

3:26:11 | of Social Welfare and a better life for people who use it.

3:26:17 | As a club of the left, very warmly we support this project prepared by the Minister of Labor and Social Policy

3:26:25 | Agnieszka Dziemianowicz BK

3:26:32 | we consider the idea of financing these allowances from the budget from a special-purpose subsidy to be justified because thanks to this, higher wages will not burden

3:26:38 | local governments and, let’s put it bluntly, they will only be written down on

3:26:44 | paper. Obligations for employees do not always have the funds. And these I have already said that the raises are needed

3:26:56 | immediately, this is an essential first step, this is putting out the fire after years

3:27:01 | of neglect, years of freezing wages, years of harmful savings, and I hope that

3:27:08 | this is not God’s step,

3:27:19 | the wage level in which social work becomes an attractive and valued profession in which young people people

3:27:30 | choose studies related to these professions with the hope of a normal, prosperous life. I hope that in a few years,

3:27:46 | these jobs will be taken up by people who are the best prepared, the best qualified, the most trustworthy. Today, the left happily supports the proposed project and

3:27:58 | at the same time I assure the employees of social workers if your wages

3:28:03 | start to rise again frozen, I will speak up for you again, both in the government and in the Sejm,

3:28:09 | thank you, thank you, I invite you, Mr.

3:28:20 | Marshal. The bill being processed today regarding price increases for

3:28:25 | one of the sectors of the Polish economy is a perfect example of the school

3:28:33 | of politics and statehood of Jarosław Kaczyński and Donald Tusk. It is a political school based on in that you sleep for a long time, you do nothing for a long time And

3:28:43 | then when a group is brought in

3:28:48 | to get some reforms, some raises, it wakes up from this sleep for a moment, it turns on the printer with money, it fills it with this money taken on

3:28:58 | credit, taken at the expense of inflation, taken at the expense of tax increases, this group is one

3:29:04 | takes care of itself without making any systemic reforms and then goes back to sleep and waits for another social group to come with the same

3:29:14 | demands once again Ladies and Gentlemen, Honorable Members of the House, Mr. Speaker, you cannot manage the state in the long run in this way, it

3:29:23 | is a road to nowhere, it is a path to bankrupt the Polish state and ensure that only the loudest groups

3:29:32 | are provided with raises, funds that are already unsatisfactory at the expense of all

3:29:38 | other groups at the expense of all those groups that are less organized, that are not so loud, that attack not so intensely with their

3:29:47 | demands of MPs or Ministers, I am not saying, of course, I am not

3:29:52 | saying that these are unjustified increases, yes, those mentioned here are completely justified, completely justified,

3:29:58 | there would be increases for many working Poles, very many working Poles, the vast majority of the Polish labor market earns less than

3:30:08 | objectively. their work is worth it and it is not possible to feed them all using the printer method,

3:30:13 | it is not possible to feed them all the method to improve the situation of the Polish economy in all sectors should be

3:30:21 | systemic reforms, systemic changes and what is proposed in this act is an idea rely an idea based on to even create systemic

3:30:30 | conflicts of interest and problems because we are talking about employees who are mostly employed by local governments and now they are to

3:30:40 | receive a raise from the government from the state budget and this is a situation in which, on the one

3:30:46 | hand, the actual employer is not the one whose employees they owe

3:30:51 | the raise to someone with whom they can negotiate the raise and who should hold them accountable for the effects of their work, this is a clear signal that no You do not have to work in such a way that

3:31:01 | your direct superior, your direct employer is satisfied You do not have to create such institutions to make it

3:31:10 | work well in this local government If if you want a raise, come to the government and shout loudly even if these people are screaming

3:31:19 | They are absolutely right for a good cause because they are absolutely right, in the long run this method of managing the state by the current prime minister by former prime ministers This is

3:31:28 | something that leads the Polish economy to paralysis and the Polish state to of the fall , enough of feeding Poles with ad hoc raises drained from the money printer,

3:31:39 | it’s time to introduce serious systemic reforms such as the voucher

3:31:44 | educational, such as the introduction of competition mechanisms in health care, such as dozens of other systemic reforms wherever

3:31:54 | the Polish state public sector meets the economy and the private sector, thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. Jarosław

3:32:04 | Sachajko, parliamentary circle, Kupis 15, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber

3:32:11 | , I don’t know Didn’t I mean to refer to

3:32:16 | the previous statement, but how we take care of the weakest people

3:32:22 | proves our humanity. Not everything can be converted into money. Not everything can be valued and social assistance is one of

3:32:33 | those things that is not

3:32:46 | and We have actually heard from all

3:32:52 | parliamentary clubs that social workers earn too little, that they should

3:32:57 | earn more. Here, the ruling option has made paeans to part of this project.

3:33:06 | At the same time, Ladies and Gentlemen, social workers,

3:33:12 | please read the first article of this act and we have. The Council

3:33:17 | of Ministers may adopt the government program. It will not accept it. can only assume that this

3:33:23 | is not yet another trick that is being done by the ruling option, that we are telling you how long we will not do it to you, and then the little word sea and it means

3:33:35 | that there is no sea, it is exactly the same as these civic projects

3:33:40 | Well, recently there was a strike of caregivers of disabled people because during one of

3:33:46 | the first sessions of the Sejm here, the High House applauded a project

3:33:51 | on helping caregivers of disabled people and later it

3:33:57 | turned out that this project was sent to the smiling marshal, and in

3:34:03 | fact to the commission’s freezer. Sorry, refrigerators, because apparently there are no freezers anymore. And that it is exactly the same key

3:34:12 | Ladies and Gentlemen, the word can change everything Moreover, please note that

3:34:18 | even Social Assistance is divided because here we are talking only about

3:34:23 | professional employees And where is the administration, why should the administration be harmed and how is Social Assistance taken out? It should be

3:34:34 | an efficient and profitable mechanism mechanism and that is what I am striving for. I think that my colleagues from

3:34:39 | the Confederation will support me in this, that it is not only the state that should deal with this, but

3:34:44 | in fact non-governmental organizations should deal with it, and the state

3:34:49 | is taking out these non-governmental organizations because maybe it would turn out that one of them

3:34:55 | is run by the church and it is already bad if the church should do it Ladies and Gentlemen, why divide it, why

3:35:05 | should the local society, including the church, not be involved in it, it all has to be some kind of

3:35:10 | business, that’s why I support the amendments introduced by law

3:35:17 | that wow the project the word may be deleted from this

3:35:22 | project Thank you Thank you, Mr. That’s the end of the speeches on behalf of the clubs, I’m opening the discussion, I’m setting the time for one minute,

3:35:31 | asking questions. Does anyone else want to sign up for questions? I don’t

3:35:36 | see any, I’m closing the list first, sir, please finish Ladies and Gentlemen,

3:35:46 | next an act that is generously sprinkled with the rhetoric

3:35:52 | of good nature and altruism, of course at someone else’s expense, in fact antagonizes various

3:36:01 | groups of employees various social groups, on the one hand, the minister rides in

3:36:07 | on a white beetle horse and scatters money that local governments did not have

3:36:12 | to pay the employees decently, and on the other hand, once they they will get this

3:36:19 | money Well, they are equal and more equal because outside the pale of this

3:36:25 | charity policy, those municipalities and local governments that somehow cope

3:36:32 | with social problems are left out of the pale because they are involved in these municipalities. In solving these problems, not only individuals

3:36:41 | are brought into existence by the government and rose self-government there are entities there are parishes there are

3:36:49 | curias there are various organizations carrying the burden of charity in Poland

3:36:57 | And the question is: Why are we equal and more equal? Why is this

3:37:03 | act putting the government in the position of a good uncle who hands out something to the attention on cotton buds? Thank you very much, Mrs.

3:37:13 | Marshal. I invite you, Mr.

3:37:18 | Konac. Speaker, Honorable Chamber, you are introducing ad hoc measures instead of treating

3:37:24 | the system as a whole, you are in this matter a continuator of the policy that was criticized until recently,

3:37:29 | you are creating the right to introduce a discretionary system granting subsidies to local government units, will you go

3:37:41 | further, if the system is

3:37:48 | corrupt, there are no subsidy amounts listed, the regulations introduce a lot of freedom for the Council of Ministers. However, in assessing the effects of the regulations, the Sejm does not

3:37:57 | receive information about the costs, so I am asking what the overall cost of this policy will be, and of course, this is what should be followed here empathy, each of us

3:38:06 | should have this empathy. Each of us should help the weaker, that is obvious, but even empathy requires financial resources and a national plan.

3:38:19 | Thank you very much, Mr. Marcin Konieczka, Parliamentary Club, Poland TR,

3:38:27 | dear, Mrs. Marshal, Mrs. Minister, Your Honor, the bill we are going through

3:38:33 | will enable co-financing the salaries of people employed in social

3:38:40 | welfare organs

3:38:46 | and this government support for local governments is necessary because during the times of the united right we were dealing with a pseudo-reform of the Polish order

3:38:56 | which limited the own income of local governments, secondly, for many years

3:39:01 | there has been a problem in local governments of under-financing of tasks commissioned by government, these funds provided by the government are

3:39:09 | insufficient, over 21,000 people will benefit from this act, and this act is

3:39:17 | the implementation of one of the 12 guarantees of the third Polish way 2050, the postulate of which is the state as an honest employer, people who work in

3:39:27 | Social Welfare perform very responsible work, help the most needy and this support is necessary, thank you very much, thank you

3:39:36 | very much, I invite you, MP Barbara Oliwiecka, parliamentary club, Poland 2050

3:39:41 | TR, thank you, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, Madam Minister. I would like to say that

3:39:50 | we cannot take a deep breath yet, because there are

3:39:56 | still a lot of issues that need to be dealt with in Social Welfare. but this is a very important and good step, social workers will finally receive raises and all parliamentarians,

3:40:05 | politicians, we here should be happy that there is someone to grant these raises, that

3:40:11 | this group is over 190,000 people, they have persevered in this profession,

3:40:17 | overload, too many responsibilities, very low pay, often lack of respect and appreciation and enormous responsibility, they persevered despite the fact

3:40:26 | that the Polish state did not take care of them sufficiently, that very often social workers took care of families that had a better

3:40:36 | financial status than their families, there was inequality and such

3:40:42 | injustice, the pad sza showed that in more than half

3:40:47 | audited social institutions instead of 50 beneficiaries, social workers took care of over 150 sometimes their charges as Poland

3:41:00 | 2050, they already told us in the previous term that the Polish state is a bad employer, it is changing and these changes will go and are going in the right direction and

3:41:09 | today we say to all social workers, we show we see

3:41:16 | and we will take care of you. Thank

3:41:21 | you very much, thank you,

3:41:27 | Mrs. MP, in the gallery there are

3:41:33 | young people from the primary school from

3:41:38 | good things from the Sejm, I wish you a nice

3:41:44 | visit, have a nice day and I invite you again. Thank you very much, I invite you to speak.

3:41:50 | I invite MP Joanna Wicha, Left Parliamentary Club. Thank you very much,

3:41:55 | Madam Speaker, Honorable Member of the House, from the very beginning of the term, I regularly met

3:42:00 | with employees of Social Welfare centers and two things

3:42:05 | I usually heard First of all, we are paid too little, we are unfairly paid, we earn less than

3:42:13 | employees of medical centers. And the second thing is the standard of

3:42:19 | these centers. I also wrote interpellations on this issue and I am very happy that today we can talk about raises for this group

3:42:28 | of employees. I am very happy. that we are discussing the first issue today, I would like to remind you that the salary of a nurse employed in a nursing home is often

3:42:37 | PLN 4,100 gross today. I think that by adopting the draft amendment, we do not close the topic. And we are taking

3:42:44 | the first step ahead of us. There is still a lot of work to do to ensure that medical workers those employed in DPS were subject to the same financial conditions as their colleagues

3:42:54 | from medical facilities, which also means appropriate adjustments and allowances. The second thing is the conditions in which they work. Let us not lose sight of the fact

3:43:03 | that the problem faced by DPS is also the lack of funds for the purchase of, among other things, wheelchairs, walkers, renovation of bathrooms,

3:43:13 | these people collect the money themselves, time, thank you very much, thank you, MP, I invite you, MP Agnieszka,

3:43:22 | pursue the Law and Justice parliamentary club, Mr. Speaker, Honorable Chamber, I would like to clarify something to my colleagues from social assistance

3:43:29 | is not an act that guarantees any raises. It is an act that creates the possibility for the government to adopt a program that has

3:43:37 | a limited time to give my colleagues an incentive allowance. It may be half

3:43:43 | a year, it may be a year, so there is no such guarantee in this act. it is not a systemic solution, nor is it a permanent solution. I have a question: what

3:43:53 | should local governments do if the program ends? The incentive allowance that is promised is taken away from people. It is also not guaranteed in this Act that

3:44:00 | it will be 100% co-financing. Article 115 of the Act is referred to. true with the second paragraph, which says that you can give more than 80% but you don’t have to, so

3:44:10 | we don’t know about this act, so the question is whether local governments know that they may have to add about PLN 400 million annually to this program

3:44:18 | because this act does not include this guarantee that it will be 100%, so Ladies and Gentlemen, let’s talk precisely about certain elements. Let’s not tell or

3:44:27 | promise people what is not yet included in this act, but I sincerely hope that it will appear in these programs. It’s a pity that these will only be temporary and only

3:44:36 | motivational allowances, so I’m surprised that the left calls for temporary solutions when it comes to the labor code and wages. Thank you, MP. I invite you,

3:44:45 | MP Anna Dąbrowska Banaszek, Law and Justice parliamentary club, High Marshal of the Sejm. The Social Welfare Center is

3:44:55 | a unit that carries out the commune’s own tasks, human resources that influence the implementation of tasks arising from the Act on social assistance and the effectiveness

3:45:03 | of activities aimed at improving the quality of life of people and families in difficult life situations. Is the crisis not limited only to

3:45:11 | social workers? The success of the family work process is also influenced by the cooperation and involvement of employees of other professions, including

3:45:19 | administrative staff. in particular, employees carrying out tasks in the areas of building a network of services based on projects of government programs or

3:45:26 | public procurement. The introduction of an incentive allowance for one of many groups of employees, especially in the case of Social Welfare centers, may

3:45:33 | lead to a sense of discrimination and, consequently, have a demotivating effect by leading to significant disproportions in the actual amounts

3:45:41 | of remuneration. my question is whether the planned bill on incentives will apply to all employees of Social Welfare centers d

3:45:51 | Thank you, MP, I invite you, MP Tadeusz Tomaszewski, parliamentary club

3:45:57 | of the Left, Madam Speaker, High Marshal, Sejm, Dear Minister, this is an important step, but

3:46:04 | the first one when it comes to improving the situation of the Materne of social workers, the data

3:46:12 | shows that approximately social workers receive

3:46:17 | salaries at the level of the minimum wage, during their work they introduced

3:46:23 | an amendment stating that this allowance may be

3:46:29 | paid in the form of an incentive allowance, but also And if the local government decides so

3:46:40 | or the entity running the Social Welfare Home on behalf of the local government, it may be

3:46:45 | part of the remuneration here Decision belongs to the entities that run them. However, as the chairman of the permanent subcommittee for

3:46:54 | cooperation with non-governmental organizations, I would like to ask first of all about those social welfare homes that are run by

3:47:03 | non-governmental organizations and religious associations, they are warning that this situation will result in

3:47:09 | people leaving and the inability to run these homes due to the fact that no

3:47:16 | , but yes, because they do not include those paid from their own funds measures of allowances for the cost of living in connection with I wanted to ask

3:47:26 | about the government’s position on this matter, what’s next kku, Mr. MP, I invite you, Mr. Grzegorz Piechowiak, Law and Justice parliamentary club.

3:47:35 | Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, similarly, a very important issue is

3:47:42 | that this bill is not visible, at least nowhere , that’s why I wanted to ask whether this act also covers employees of Social Welfare

3:47:51 | Homes that are run by religious associations, especially we have

3:47:57 | many Social Welfare Homes in Poland run by nuns and there are many civilians working there who do equally

3:48:07 | hard work, will these people also be covered ? with this act, it seems that this act also ignores

3:48:18 | employees of Day Support and Family Support centers as well as community centers – this is also a very important element in

3:48:31 | social life and I have a question for the Ministry whether the mentioned employees and

3:48:37 | entities mentioned are included in this project Thank you Dziu Pie

3:48:46 | parliamentary club Law and

3:48:52 | Justice Dear Madam Speaker, Honorable Member of the House, today we all generally

3:48:58 | agreed that this important area, the area of Social Assistance, as well as

3:49:03 | the situation of employees who perform these extremely important tasks, is difficult

3:49:08 | and this situation translates into, and local government officials say, it is increasingly difficult to find good qualified employees who

3:49:18 | can undertake these responsible social welfare tasks. I will just give the example of my

3:49:26 | Lubuskie Voivodeship, where as many as 11 local governments out of 82 do not meet the requirement to employ at least

3:49:32 | three full-time employees, six communes do not meet

3:49:37 | the requirement for the employment rate of social workers in relation to to the number of inhabitants, it shows how difficult the situation is and we need

3:49:46 | to take action, we all also recognize that it is good that this step is being taken today, although it is ad hoc and not so systemic and discontinuous, but

3:49:56 | I also think from these statements that there were numerous statements today that it is high time to take systemic actions that will change this situation in general and

3:50:06 | that is why the question to the representatives of the Ministry is whether the Ministry is aware of such actions and systemic solutions. Thank you,

3:50:16 | Mr. Thank you, Mr. I invite you, Mr. Andrzej Gawron, Law and

3:50:25 | Justice parliamentary club, Madam Speaker, High House, this is certainly a very good direction

3:50:31 | to increase salaries Social Welfare workers, social workers,

3:50:36 | but this Act is a bit weak because First of all, in the

3:50:41 | first article, the Council of Ministers may adopt a government wage subsidy program, the next point may be in the form of an incentive tax,

3:50:51 | anything, maybe I would expect it to be a firm declaration when there will be these increases when there will be this government resolution. There is also talk

3:51:00 | that the government may adopt a resolution so that these social workers, Social Welfare workers who are probably listening to us now, know whether this

3:51:08 | increase will be this year or only next year. What will be the scale of this increase ? raises, please answer

3:51:16 | so that those interested, social workers of the Social Welfare have specific information. I am asking for specific information, thank you, thank you, Mr. MP.

3:51:25 | I invite you, Mrs. Dorot Olko, Parliamentary Club, Plewica,

3:51:30 | Mrs. Marshal, High House, I was approached by nuns from the

3:51:37 | Polish province, the Congregation of Sisters of Nurses, Reg, hugs

3:51:44 | the SP as social welfare homes as

3:51:50 | non-governmental organizations and, of course, this situation applies not only to this assembly but to many non-governmental organizations to which local governments entrust tasks in this area

3:52:01 | and I would like to ask whether these organizations will definitely also be covered by these allowances at the minister’s committee Dziemianowicz b she declared that

3:52:12 | this would also cover organizations Due to the fact that these questions are still being asked by this type of organizations, I would like them to hear this,

3:52:21 | I think it will be important for them here from this podium to ensure that they will also

3:52:26 | receive these allowances. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mrs. MP. I invite you, Mr. Bartosz Romowicz, Parliamentary Club, Poland 2050 TR dear Dear Madam Marshal

3:52:36 | minister, ladies and gentlemen, of course, the topic is worth supporting and here I think there is no point in discussing it for a long time, but I would like to address another

3:52:45 | problem: local governments bear the largest part of the costs of social assistance in Poland,

3:52:51 | local governments subsidize the stays of their residents in social welfare homes and

3:52:56 | these stays are more and more expensive and, as a result, these local governments have more and more expenses

3:53:01 | in this area. I would like to ask the minister whether, in the course of work on improving the situation of social workers, which is obviously necessary because

3:53:09 | social workers are obviously entitled to these additional funds, was it analyzed how the system would ultimately change? so that it is not local governments

3:53:17 | that bear the costs of maintaining their residents in social welfare homes, but

3:53:23 | the state or other tools, such as a reverse mortgage or anything in this regard, that will make it easier for local governments to enforce the execution of people obliged to

3:53:33 | support their loved ones Social Welfare Home Thank you very much, Mr. MP, Mr. Jarosław Sachajko. parliamentary group

3:53:41 | 15, Minister, Honorable Member of the House, I was going to start differently, but

3:53:49 | a moment ago, my colleague from Poland 2050 said that one of the 12 guarantees has been fulfilled –

3:53:55 | the state as an honest employer, and here we see an honest employer who divides social assistance into that provided by local governments,

3:54:07 | but first of all, he forgets about the children. because I wanted to ask what children are worse at than adults, because in your article you write that

3:54:16 | only the state can and does not have to do it or at their request. So if

3:54:22 | local government units commission non-governmental organizations to take care of them, it is fine, but only for people adults, but if you have children, let them

3:54:31 | cope on their own, this is a bit strange, because I don’t think that children should

3:54:37 | be treated in a worse situation, so I wanted to ask why in the

3:54:42 | second article, where we talk about the care of children up to the age of TR, you omit it

3:54:49 | and thank you that the left two representatives of the left asked here openly non-governmental organizations Well run by

3:54:59 | religious communities noy Mr. Minister Thank you the list of MPs registered to

3:55:05 | vote has been exhausted the vote was requested by the Undersecretary of State at the Ministry of Family, Labor and Social Policy, Minister Katarzyna

3:55:15 | Nowakowska Please,

3:55:22 | Minister. Madam Speaker, Honorable Members of the House, ladies and gentlemen, especially those who spoke

3:55:30 | today in this discussion, I would first of all like to thank all the favorable votes and for understanding how important and really urgent it is

3:55:40 | to adopt the proposal submitted by the governments for the country from Law and Justice,

3:55:47 | mainly I have prepared several quotes, quotes from open letters to

3:55:53 | Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki from 2020 and

3:55:59 | 2023, so that we all know what situation we find ourselves in

3:56:04 | when we take over the government, quotes, these are letters sent by the Polish

3:56:13 | trade union of social workers and social assistance, and now the first quote in this

3:56:19 | context, it is worth mentioning the results of the nick report, which indicated, among other things, that there are too few social workers, they are

3:56:26 | overloaded, they work under stress, they are low paid and often exposed to physical or verbal aggression, it happens that some of the centers’ residents

3:56:34 | received more in the form of benefits from social assistance than a

3:56:40 | social worker earned, an undoubted reason for shame for the Polish state is the fact that the earnings of social workers are among the lowest in Europe, this is 2020, and

3:56:49 | for context I would like to remind you that there has been a protest of this professional group since 2018, a letter from 2023,

3:56:57 | March to Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki Meanwhile, the situation in

3:57:03 | the Social Assistance sector remains dramatic, the number of employees in this area is decreasing year by year, the problem and challenge for employers is

3:57:10 | the recruitment of qualified employees given the aging society and thus

3:57:16 | an increase in demand for, among others, services addressed to seniors for seniors people with disabilities or long-term

3:57:24 | patients, in the near future there will likely be a situation in which there will be a lack of specialists providing these services to others

3:57:32 | The fundamental problem is low wages and the directly related low prestige of the profession. All of us in Poland are currently experiencing a general increase in

3:57:40 | inflation, rising costs of living, but the situation of employees of individual units

3:57:46 | is exceptionally difficult. In a large part of communes, wages have flattened,

3:57:51 | regardless of the position held, education or professional experience, Social Welfare workers are often also they are experiencing

3:58:01 | a situation, I will be happy to tell you what the situation is like, Social Welfare workers also often experience a situation g

3:58:08 | a beneficiary using visa certificates is carrying out 2023 March Ladies and Gentlemen,

3:58:19 | I would like to emphasize very strongly that in the Ministry of Family, Labor and Social Policy we are fully aware that in this matter further decisions are necessary

3:58:28 | that will systematically secure appropriate remuneration of employees of the Social Assistance system, but also, because this is what we are talking about today,

3:58:35 | family support and foster care employees, as well as employees of local government institutions caring for children up to three years of age who perform

3:58:42 | responsible tasks in very sensitive areas for the state and local government. areas, however, we know what a difficult financial situation the previous government

3:58:52 | led local governments to. That’s why I’m here, I think I’m speaking and on behalf of

3:58:57 | the Ministry of the Prime Minister and the government, I’m very happy that we are able

3:59:03 | to talk here today about real increases that are not in the form of

3:59:08 | allowances and that will not additionally burden local governments.

3:59:14 | that these salaries are the local governments’ own tasks, it will be important, of course, to continue working together to implement solutions that

3:59:23 | will be agreed upon in accordance with the local government side, we are aware that

3:59:29 | today we are putting out the fire that was passed on to us by our predecessors,

3:59:35 | but the government programs that will be created on the basis of the laws are necessary, a few technical questions were asked which I would be happy to answer and

3:59:45 | answer first of all, since when, first of all, why the word « may » in the law because, as I said, these are local governments’ own tasks, this is a

3:59:55 | solution that we need to introduce into the law so that as a government we can at all we should talk about such allowances, so the next step

4:00:05 | will be of course government programs and here is the answer to the MP who asked if they will actually be there, please don’t measure us by your yardstick, they will definitely be there since

4:00:16 | they are planned from July 1, the cost for this year that was

4:00:21 | planned in the budget is one billion PLN 360 million which employees will be

4:00:27 | covered by these allowances and here I would like to reassure you that when it comes to the type of facility, we have local government institutions and non-governmental organizations that

4:00:39 | carry out these tasks on behalf of the local government, i.e. also unions

4:00:45 | and non-governmental organizations, these are employees employed under employment contracts

4:00:51 | in these institutions and now just to mention what institutions we are talking about, because there were questions about whether these are substantive or

4:01:00 | administrative employees, and again I do not make such a distinction here, these are all employees of organizational units

4:01:08 | of Social Welfare, employees, i.e. employees of Social Welfare centers, District centers, family assistance centers, social service centers, Social Welfare Homes

4:01:17 | , specialized counseling, including family Crisis Intervention centers support centers support centers for people with

4:01:25 | mental disorders day care homes homes for mothers with minor children and pregnant women shelters for homeless people shelters for homeless people

4:01:32 | with welfare services self-help clubs and also a

4:01:37 | foster care system supporting the family family assistants family assistants family and foster care coordinators playground workers people

4:01:44 | employed to help in foster families professional and family children’s homes under an employment contract and here we have nurseries

4:01:53 | children’s clubs Day caretakers I think I have explained all the intricacies very much to you Thank you very much for all

4:02:01 | the favorable votes Our task is to solve the problem in the long run

4:02:06 | in a systemic way, which our predecessors did not bother to implement.

4:02:11 | Thank you very much, Mrs. Minister, in connection with the fact that during the second reading it was reported to the submitted draft bill amendments I propose that the Sejm should refer

4:02:20 | this project again to the Family Social Policy Committee to present a report, if I hear no objections I will consider that the Sejm has accepted the proposal,

4:02:29 | I do not hear any objections Ladies and Gentlemen, I am announcing a break until 3:00 p.m.

4:02:36 | At 3:00 p.m. we begin point four, thank you

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5:12:27 | we

5:12:36 | are going to resume the meeting

5:12:41 | very cordially first Greetings to the students of technical school no. 8 the name of Jan

5:12:47 | Karski from Warsaw who are in the Sejm at the invitation of MP Michał Kobosko, you are here and all our

5:12:57 | guests about whom I don’t know yet Where they came from but we will certainly find out during the meeting

5:13:11 | Ladies and Gentlemen

5:13:21 | , we are starting to consider point four of the agenda. is information from the Prosecutor General of the Republic of Poland on the total

5:13:29 | number of persons against whom a request for ordering control and consolidation of the decision has been submitted or a request for ordering operational control

5:13:39 | year is form number 308 I am asking the Prosecutor General of the Republic

5:13:45 | of Poland, Adam Bodnar, to provide information.

5:14:01 | I would like to ask you, Mr. Marek, Honorable Chamber. I would like to thank

5:14:09 | the Chamber and for the opportunity to present the Prosecutor General’s report on the application of operational control by the police and services in

5:14:18 | the Republic of Poland. Pursuant to Article 11, paragraph 1

5:14:23 | of the Law on the Prosecutor’s Office, the Prosecutor General presents to the Sejm and the Senate public annual information on the total number of persons against whom a request to order control

5:14:31 | was sent. recording the conversations or a request for ordering an operational control with an indication of the number of persons in respect of whom they are subject to

5:14:38 | the talks or an operational control the court refused to order an control or the request for an operational control did not

5:14:46 | obtain the consent of the prosecutor and this obligation also includes specifying the number of persons in particular categories as to which the operational control

5:14:54 | was requested by the competent authority, the appropriate report was presented by me and sent to the Speaker of the Sejm, Mr. Szymon Hołownia, and also to

5:15:04 | the Speaker of the Senate, Mrs. Małgorzata Kida Wy Błońska, on April

5:15:09 | this year, while today’s report is of a special nature, I think, because I decided that it is in the public interest not only

5:15:17 | presenting data on the use of operational control but also statistics on the use of software which is popularly

5:15:25 | called Pegasus, i.e. the use of operational control in relation to the

5:15:32 | end device. I would like to emphasize that operational control as a form of operational work of the police and state secret services is an extremely

5:15:39 | sensitive means of action that not only significantly interferes with the private life of specific people who become the subject of interest of the services,

5:15:50 | but also generates enormous knowledge about their private and professional life and which may be later discounted in various ways. Although in the event of

5:15:59 | failure to obtain materials confirming the criminal activity of a specific person, the collected materials are destroyed, specific

5:16:06 | information remains in memory and can be used for operational purposes, which is why operational control is such an attractive form

5:16:14 | of service operation because it offers enormous opportunities to acquire knowledge. about a person who remains of interest to them regardless of the actual connection with

5:16:21 | committing crimes and all this is carried out without the knowledge of the subject of interest who, in the light of applicable regulations, does not

5:16:29 | even have to be notified about the actions taken against him, does not have to be notified post factum, what is more, the development of technology encourages to ensure that the police

5:16:39 | or special services use various new technological improvements that allow for operational control, moving on to

5:16:48 | present statistics. I would like to inform you that in 2023, all authorized authorities submitted a total of

5:16:58 | 5,973 requests to 5,973 people to order control,

5:17:04 | recording of conversations or requests to order operational control during whereby the courts refused to order control and recording of conversations or

5:17:11 | operational control in relation to 5,835 people, the courts refused to order

5:17:18 | control and recording of conversations or operational control in relation to 22 people, and requests for operational control did not obtain the prosecutor’s consent in relation to 116 people. As

5:17:28 | for individual services, out of 90 authorized services s submitted

5:17:33 | appropriate applications, applications were not submitted by the internal supervision inspector , by the state and by the internal inspection

5:17:41 | of the prison service, most applications were submitted by the police

5:17:47 | – 5,233 people, of which the courts refused to order an appellate review against

5:17:53 | 12 people, and the prosecutor’s office consented – the prosecutor did not consent In relation to 104 people later, the second best is the Internal Security Agency

5:18:02 | 220 people One refusal of the

5:18:09 | prosecutor’s court, the Central Anti-Corruption Bureau, 145 people, the prosecutor’s refusals, the border guard, 114 people, no refusals, the military police, 78 people,

5:18:20 | one refusal of the prosecutor, the national tax administration, 34 people, two refusals of the prosecutor and the military counterintelligence service 32 people, including one

5:18:32 | refusal, and compared to previous years, the following trends can be observed:

5:18:37 | slight in previous years, it was a little over 6,000 people, in 2021, it was around 7,000 people, but I think what is characteristic is that a high level

5:18:48 | of approval of consents remains by the courts and the prosecutor’s office, and I think that this is a factor

5:18:55 | that should raise reflection, which I will talk about later in the speech, and I also think that it is worth remembering that the use of operational control is

5:19:04 | the most advanced form of surveillance, while, of course, checking has also been a problem in Poland for years. billings on this topic,

5:19:12 | separate analyzes are presented, separate reports when it comes to checking billings here. The scale is completely incomparable and I also think it is worth

5:19:20 | considering and this was the subject of reflection by various non-governmental

5:19:30 | organizations . does not provide a sufficient basis to verify whether

5:19:39 | checking the billings was necessary in every situation Dear Mr. Speaker of the High Chamber On

5:19:45 | September 21, 2008, 2018 once again On September 21, 2018,

5:19:52 | TVN24 investigative journalist Robert Zieliński informed that the Central Anticorruption Bureau has a new system for surveillance, he then wrote that

5:20:01 | this system was financed by the justice fund, and in the files of

5:20:06 | the documents confirming the purchase of the Supreme Audit Office he also indicated that PLN 33 million was transferred from the justice fund for

5:20:16 | the purchase of this surveillance system, then basically it was not known yet what is the system and what is it supposed to involve? Later

5:20:26 | articles by Robert Zieliński, later also other journalists started using the name Pegasus, but I think it is worth

5:20:36 | noting that years have passed since then and during this time citizens of the Republic of Poland

5:20:41 | obtained a number of additional information about the functioning of this system because, in the so-called meantime, during these few years we learned that

5:20:49 | the Pegasus system is not some false information disseminated

5:20:54 | by the media or non-governmental organizations, but the existence of this system, the possession and use of this system by the secret services has been confirmed secondly

5:21:04 | , thanks to the work of the Citizen Lab of the University of Toronto Thanks to Amnesty International, we learned the identity of people who suspected that their phones might

5:21:13 | have been infected with Pegasus, thirdly, thanks to the work of the extraordinary commission for investigating cases of surveillance of the Senate committee headed

5:21:23 | by then senator Marcin Bosacki, we learned a lot about

5:21:29 | various technical aspects of the functioning of this system, we could also learn the testimony of witnesses, including people who were affected by this

5:21:38 | surveillance system. Finally, thanks to the work of a special commission in the European Parliament, we could see that the problem

5:21:44 | of using this software concerns not only Poland but also other countries, but I think that what was also achieved committee of the special committee in

5:21:53 | the European Parliament, the pega committee, is also to show the connection between the use of this system and simply the mechanisms of exercising power, and

5:22:02 | finally, currently, thanks to the work of the investigative committee in the Sejm of the Republic of Poland headed by Mrs. Sroka, thanks to the work of the members of

5:22:11 | the committee, thank you very much for your presence, we can learn on an ongoing basis additional aspects of the functioning of this system and, finally, thanks to

5:22:19 | the cooperation between the national prosecutor’s office and individual secret services, and especially thanks to access to the archives of proceedings conducted by

5:22:28 | individual services and by the prosecutor’s office, we can learn the scale of surveillance used using the Pegasus system of prosecutor’s offices, the prosecutor general

5:22:37 | in secret mode after the investigation conducted by the investigative team for Pegasus, which was appointed at the National Prosecutor’s Office,

5:22:45 | obtained information on the use of this programming by individual special services, the Minister Coordinator for

5:22:55 | Special Services, Tomasz Siemoniak, in a letter of April 9, 2024, agreed to present total aggregated statistical data

5:23:05 | on the use of Pegasus, strictly operational control used in accordance with

5:23:10 | Article 19, paragraph 6, point 4 of the Police Act, i.e. access to the

5:23:16 | terminal device, I believe that presenting this data to the High Sejm and the High

5:23:21 | Senate is necessary due to the content of Article 12 of the Law on the Prosecutor’s Office, as this information is, in my opinion, important for

5:23:30 | state security and for its proper functioning, and I think it is the second part, i.e. that this is information for its proper functioning. In this

5:23:39 | context, even more important is the information that was provided by the Central Anticorruption Bureau,

5:23:47 | internal security agencies and the military counterintelligence service, it follows that these three services in the years 20172 22 used operational control of

5:23:57 | the end device to a total of 578 people, of which in 2017 it was 6

5:24:04 | people, in 2018 it was 100 people 2019

5:24:10 | people 2021 16 people and in 2022 9 people And I would like to comment on these data with a few words

5:24:23 | First of all, Pegasus is an operational control measure which very

5:24:28 | seriously interferes with the privacy of a given person because it basically allows you to take control over the tone by entering all the data collected in that tone and

5:24:39 | therefore, necessarily. The use of this type of method must raise serious doubts from the point of view of the protection of constitutional rights. Secondly, Pegasus

5:24:47 | is not software. over which full control, including data processing, is exercised by the Polish state because this system does not operate on the basis of

5:24:55 | state ownership, but on the basis of a license granted by an Israeli company, and the essence of the functioning of this system is

5:25:04 | that data is transferred outside Poland and there is no data security and what happens to this data, how it

5:25:13 | can be used, collected and processed by the services of other countries and finally, I think that the information disclosed so far, especially that which is

5:25:22 | the result of the activities of both the Senate committee and the current investigative committee, as well as the data confirmed by materials in

5:25:32 | the possession of the prosecutor’s office, confirm that this system covers a number of public figures. And these public testimonies of these people are For me as a citizen

5:25:42 | of the Republic of Poland, also as the Prosecutor General, it is shocking and depressing for me that even in this room I am speaking to people

5:25:50 | who were victims of this system. Dear Sirs,

5:25:55 | Honorable Members of the House, Dear Mr. Marshal, the use of Pegasus has led to a number of debates and discussions in our public life and I think that

5:26:05 | one of the most important conclusions is the need to reform the secret services and introduce supervision over the secret services. I think that an excellent

5:26:13 | summary of what should be done can now be found in

5:26:19 | the report of the Senate committee and in the recent report of March 21, 2024

5:26:25 | prepared by the Supreme Audit Office in the report Senate committee regarding the supervision of the secret services, two main threads emerge – that

5:26:32 | we should either strengthen the existing institutions, such as the Ombudsman or the commission for secret services, or we should create an

5:26:41 | independent independent supervisory body, and I think that we need this debate as much as this supervision. over the services should look However, I would

5:26:50 | like to draw special attention to the need to reform the system of supervision over the services by the courts, because in the report

5:26:59 | of March 21, this report is extensive, it is

5:27:05 | classified, but its public part is available on the website of the Supreme Audit Office to which to which he refers.

5:27:13 | There are several such principles that should be introduced. Firstly, courts should receive all materials available at a given stage of the proceedings in order to

5:27:21 | consider the application for the application of operational control. Secondly, judges should be able to apply to an independent control body. In

5:27:28 | case of doubts as to the application in in a given case of operational control, thirdly, courts should be obliged to justify both a

5:27:37 | positive decision and a negative one, currently only in the case of a negative decision they are obliged to prepare a justification. What can be said on the basis of such

5:27:47 | economics of everyday work means that courts in the world simply do not always

5:27:55 | justify, it can be said that they are more inclined to expressing consent I think

5:28:01 | it is very important for the courts to be decentralized when

5:28:07 | it comes to deciding on applications, so that the main burden of work does not

5:28:12 | rest on the shoulders of the District Court in Warsaw but, for example, it depends on the seat of a given Delegation and finally, I think it is worth strengthening

5:28:22 | the care strengthen the knowledge of these issues by the judges who adjudicate in these cases

5:28:30 | here – judges are not always prepared for this work in terms of knowledge of the methods

5:28:38 | of the nature of operational work on the part of the services or the police and the above recommendations, which have been repeated for some time, have been repeated in

5:28:46 | the recommendations and organization non-governmental and in this and were clearly indicated in this report, there were also in the report of the Senate committee they are

5:28:56 | valid not only in the context of Pegasus but more broadly in the context of appellate review because I would like to point out that this number of refusals is very small and I think that here it is

5:29:04 | a strengthening of the courts in the field of supervision the police of the special services is necessary in the context

5:29:10 | of one more minute Here you go, this is a signal that automatically reminds you

5:29:15 | that time is passing, but if the minister wants it, I think we are able to devote more minutes to the Marshal of the House, in

5:29:24 | the context of Pegasus, however, an additional question arises: How it would be necessary to verify the operation of this programming in relation to

5:29:31 | individual persons, because I believe that from the court it is a problem

5:29:40 | and I believe that it is a very important problem because it may be that various

5:29:48 | situations that were verified by the court consisted in, so to speak, an incorrect setting of the relationship between the secret services and courts the court could

5:29:57 | may have been misled, may have been incorrectly informed by the secret services, the actual arguments and potential allegations presented may

5:30:04 | not have been supported by reality. Therefore, the Prosecutor’s Office was reviewing all cases in which Pegasus was used in order

5:30:12 | to verify how many of the people covered by this software became victims. violations of the right to privacy and informational autonomy and

5:30:20 | the prosecutor’s office When carrying out this verification, the following criteria will be taken into account: Firstly, what was the reliability of the information

5:30:29 | that was the basis for the implementation of operational control, or indeed, at the stage of requesting the application of operational control, did the services have

5:30:37 | facts indicating or substantiating the possibility of committing a crime? for example, the question whether, at the time when

5:30:45 | this inspection was requested, the services actually had at their disposal at least materials that there was a real suspicion of committing a crime, or

5:30:52 | whether it was only for the purpose of testing the search engine on the principle that maybe we will find something in a given citizen who is subjected to this form of

5:31:03 | surveillance after secondly, it should be verified in terms of the proportionality of operational control, whether the measure was used in such a way as to

5:31:12 | minimize interference with the right to privacy, for example, under the pretext of proving a serious crime, any information about

5:31:21 | this person completely unrelated to the presented charge is sought, or perhaps another for example, if this measure is used in the context of an attempt

5:31:30 | to prove some minor crime that can be proven by ordinary means of evidence without resorting to this type of programming, or, for example, someone

5:31:37 | is suspected of forging documents, we rather need an expert in such a situation , not that such a person check with Pegasus and finally,

5:31:45 | the third thing is the adequacy of operational control whether operational control was adequate in the light of the availability of other checking means, for example, perhaps

5:31:53 | the appropriate knowledge could have been obtained by checking billings by simply observing the figurehead, but this did not happen, but

5:32:01 | the services immediately resorted to verification and checking terminal device in

5:32:08 | a nutshell, what is the purpose of the prosecutor’s office at this stage is to detect obvious cases of abuse of the system and

5:32:14 | instrumentalization of the system to achieve other goals, the investigative team will constantly communicate the findings to the public

5:32:22 | to the extent that it does not violate the good of the investigation. cooperated with the investigative commission and also conducted the entire

5:32:30 | proceedings in order to conduct a comprehensive analysis of the problem, the

5:32:36 | investigative team will also analyze what happened to the materials obtained as a result of the operational inspection, whether they were destroyed or were transferred to anyone

5:32:43 | , whether the obtained materials could have led to criminal legal action or perhaps were to be used for other purposes Dear Mr. Speaker,

5:32:50 | Your Honor, I believe that the issue of abuse of operational control, especially Pegasus , is of fundamental importance for public opinion in the era of modern

5:33:00 | technologies. There is a temptation to reach for easy solutions in operational work, as shown by previous experience, it is also a serious

5:33:09 | consequence. system of government on the way in which power is exercised, it is in the interest of all of us

5:33:14 | that the matter is comprehensively explained, that we draw conclusions from it, that the injured have the right to compensation, that the guilty are

5:33:21 | punished, because such a history as surveillance using the Pegasus as a method of exercising power cannot be repeated.

5:33:28 | Thank you, thank you. very much, Minister

5:33:38 | from Skarlin from the Nowe Miasto Lubawskie commune, together with Andrzej Andrzejewski, the president of the Działyński Foundation, who are visiting the Sejm at the invitation

5:33:46 | of MP Marcin SK Konieczna. We greet you warmly. I see that in the gallery there are also guests of the heir MP, whom we warmly

5:33:55 | greet and also the MP, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to remind you that

5:34:01 | The Sejm agreed that during the discussion on the item on the agenda it would listen to the testimony of the names

5:34:06 | oad club, on behalf of the group, I am opening the discussion, MP Marcin Warchoł, Law and Justice club, will be the first to speak.

5:34:15 | Thank you very much, dear Speaker, Mr. Minister. Cicero, in Roman times, said that not knowing

5:34:25 | history means being a child forever, and we hear it here today. fairy tales from the minister

5:34:32 | about alleged wiretapping, surveillance, abuse of wiretapping

5:34:38 | Mr. Minister, we are not the children you think we are here, we know history perfectly well and this history consists of facts, numbers, not Baja,

5:34:50 | presumptions, opinions, hypotheses, as the minister deigned to show us here, you are talking

5:34:58 | about mass surveillance with Pegasus in a situation where there were only a few hundred cases, all of them concerned crimes and all of them were

5:35:06 | approved by the courts, meanwhile the historical facts show that it was

5:35:13 | the government of the Civic Platform in which Poles were subjected to the most mass

5:35:18 | surveillance of the management boards of Law and Justice, the number of wiretappings dropped, the number of inquiries dropped about the billings in the situation of your government,

5:35:27 | both the first and second data increased, which I will tell you about in a moment Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, 2006 and 2007, let’s go back to those times, compare these periods, the number of

5:35:40 | wiretappings of the management boards of Law and Justice decreased by 400, this is very

5:35:45 | important Because it was the pre-election period will show how the Civic Platform behaved in the pre-election period, exactly the opposite.

5:35:53 | 2014, the number of wiretappings increases, and in comparison to 2013, by over 900.

5:36:01 | It was 5,221 people wiretapped in 2014,

5:36:07 | a record, Mr. Minister, a record of surveillance, a record of wiretapping, the number of wiretapped Poles has increased dramatically since 2013. there are facts But

5:36:17 | let’s move on to the second issue that the minister also bothered to mention, namely the billings, the billings are made without the involvement of the court and this is also very

5:36:25 | important information, the services ask a question. Within two minutes they literally

5:36:31 | have information about who a given person called. Who was his interlocutor when

5:36:39 | the call was made. a telephone conversation or an SMS connection and also

5:36:44 | geolocation data are obtained in this way also without the participation of the court in

5:36:50 | an absolutely very simplified way in literally a few minutes and let’s look at this information and again Ladies and Gentlemen, we see that in 2014, when

5:37:01 | the platform was conducting an election campaign, a record the number of inquiries about

5:37:07 | Poles’ telecommunications data was over 2 million and this

5:37:13 | is also a drastic increase compared to the previous year, Ladies and Gentlemen,

5:37:18 | by as much as 24%, i.e. surveillance using wiretaps and surveillance

5:37:25 | using billings increased by 24%, it was over 2 millions in 2014, PiS

5:37:33 | comes to power, they shouted so much about mass surveillance and surveillance laws And we look at the statistics and here it is,

5:37:44 | 2016, one million, 147,000, twice less, Mr. Minister.

5:37:50 | How is it possible, and on the basis of this act that they criticized so much, we go on to 2019, one million, 300,000 2020 a million is

5:38:02 | 600,000 million and more or less this number remained twice less than

5:38:09 | the platforms. Currently, after coming to power, the platform is again increasing the surveillance

5:38:14 | of citizens, they want to read encrypted instant messengers, chats, e-mails, as revealed by

5:38:20 | Minister Siemoniak in the draft amendment to the Law on Electronic Communications, and so It’s strange that the greatest surveillance occurs when

5:38:29 | the platform conducts a pre-election campaign and what were you so afraid of in 2014

5:38:35 | of OSH PiS terrorists? Yes, we were afraid of

5:38:41 | PiS. Thank you, Mr. MP. Thank you very much. There were no such sudden jumps in the number of wiretaps during the 8 years of the government. united right

5:38:52 | , that’s why it was Donald Tusk and his followers who most often used

5:38:59 | both inquiries about phone records and wiretapping, they introduced mass surveillance, you are responsible for it, not the government of the united

5:39:07 | right, not Law and Justice, and this is your real electoral program, these

5:39:13 | numbers facts, this is your real election program, now you don’t even hide the fact that it’s the third time. Meanwhile, this time it’s not openly, not quietly like twice

5:39:23 | before, but now you openly want to eavesdrop on Poles en masse,

5:39:28 | Donald Big Brother Tusk was born. Thank you very much. The MP will take the floor. Marcos

5:39:36 | couples’ club

5:39:49 | Thank you very much, Madam High Marshal, Sejm, Mr. Minister, Mr. Prosecutor’s Office, Attorney General.

5:39:59 | Thank you very much for informing

5:40:10 | us about the Pegasus case in this debate, a case that broke out 2 and a half years

5:40:18 | ago in Poland only because a large electronic operator, Apple,

5:40:28 | started informing people attacked with this cyber weapon.

5:40:37 | that in Poland, the Polish services are probably

5:40:44 | using this weapon against them, what then? You said, you, census taker, and this was said by the one who

5:40:53 | allocated PLN 25 million from the justice fund, the fund that was supposed

5:40:59 | to serve victims of crimes, allocated AEM 25 million.

5:41:13 | When the case broke out, you said that Pegasus is just a game console. that these are

5:41:21 | fairy tales. Anyway, today the representative of PiS also started to strike these pathetic tones. So let’s start these fairy tales that you

5:41:34 | have to straighten out one by one. First of all, continue to get drunk despite the enormous work

5:41:43 | done over the years by the media, by the highest

5:41:48 | audit chamber, by the Sen Commission and the recently established commission. Parliament,

5:41:57 | chaired by Mrs. Sroka, insists that the purchase of the Pegasus was

5:42:04 | legal, of course, in a very simple way, it can be said that

5:42:11 | it was not legal simply because the Act on the CBA in Article C clearly states that the service, like

5:42:17 | all services of this type in the Republic of Poland, can be financed

5:42:22 | only and exclusively from the state budget and of course the

5:42:29 | justice fund is not a budget even though at the end of the preparations for

5:42:34 | installing the use of other Poles pegazus you changed

5:42:41 | the law on the justice fund so that it could also finance

5:42:46 | public institutions secondly you repeat lies that it was used legally

5:42:58 | not firstly a long and heated discussion within the Security Service

5:43:08 | of the kings and their lawyers, when

5:43:14 | valid arguments were made in these records and exchange of documents that the use of such

5:43:22 | a highly invasive program by the Polish services would be contrary to Polish law, politically a decision was made to

5:43:31 | do it, but not. Even the services were approached which

5:43:38 | must be authorized in accordance with Polish law, i.e. to the Internal Security Agency and to

5:43:46 | the Commissariat for the system to be certified in Poland, there is no such consent,

5:43:53 | secondly, your argument that the courts agreed ignores the eyes

5:44:03 | faked Is it true

5:44:09 | that there is a judgment from last year of the District Court in Wrocław, which clearly

5:44:17 | speaks about the surveillance of the Breejz state, which clearly

5:44:22 | states that the use of this type of system in accordance with Polish law. In

5:44:29 | such cases

5:44:38 | as Pegasus was allegedly used throughout

5:44:44 | Europe, it was actually used in several European countries, but it was used

5:44:50 | against those for whom it was designed, i.e. foreign terrorists.

5:44:56 | spies and perpetrators of very serious crimes, the

5:45:03 | European Parliament report published last year says that

5:45:09 | the services used against political opponents in the same way as you used were only in two countries: Poland

5:45:16 | and Hungary, from which you probably learned about the existence of this system and which

5:45:28 | acted as an intermediary in its purchase from the Israeli side in other European countries it

5:45:35 | was used to fuel the needs of the political struggle, which I will say more about in a moment

5:45:48 | And this is your hypocritical Another argument you claim, just

5:45:55 | like President Kaczyński, who is unfortunately absent today,

5:46:11 | President Kaczyński insinuated during our committee, contrary to the facts and

5:46:17 | contrary to established court judgments that

5:46:22 | publicly known politicians or opposition activists such as Krzysztof brejza Roman

5:46:29 | Giertych Jacek Mrs. Pratz

5:46:37 | is a political insinuation politically you made the decision to

5:46:42 | buy a Pegasus politically they chose those

5:46:47 | whom he surveilled these people Despite the court verdicts he attacks that they are still criminals it is

5:47:00 | vile finally wok

5:47:08 | interviews and to catch spies how, since we already know from media leaks in recent days that this system could not be used in accordance with the license

5:47:18 | by Polish intelligence where it is potentially needed by Polish intelligence the most, i.e. in the East, especially in Russia, so it could not be

5:47:27 | another of your false arguments is refuted by your

5:47:33 | fairy tales, there is one absolute

5:47:39 | proof that you used it for political fighting, is that the manipulated

5:47:46 | fragments stolen with the Pegasus by the PiS services, especially the CBA, then

5:47:53 | ended up in news programs controlled by PiS on TVP Info and

5:47:59 | TVP news, the accident of

5:48:07 | the Senate investigative committee I have I hope that we will also deal with this in the work

5:48:13 | of the parliamentary committee, but also of other people who

5:48:20 | spit on the information collected by Pegasus and the PiS technological chain, which was then

5:48:27 | passed on to the so-called journalists to TVP, especially TVP Info,

5:48:37 | Mr. Minister, your information about the shocking number of almost 600

5:48:44 | Pegasus attacks during the 5 years of your government.

5:48:51 | PiS shows how much work we still have ahead of us, both before the parliamentary

5:48:57 | investigative commission and before the team of

5:49:05 | prosecutors, the case in the services, thank you very much for your declaration of cooperation

5:49:11 | , but I wanted to ask you and ask for your comment when you will speak at the end of the discussion about one thing – in your opinion, the use of Pegasus in the

5:49:21 | way it was used in Poland and on the scale in which it was used,

5:49:27 | during these five or more than 5 years of using Pegasus, it poisoned the very essence of democracy in Poland.

5:49:37 | Your Honors, thanking the Minister, the Prosecutor

5:49:43 | General, I hope that this will not be our last debate in this matter because the matter is extremely,

5:49:52 | extremely crucial, thank you, thank you very much, Mr. I invite you, Mr.

5:49:58 | Paweł Slippery, parliamentary club, Poland, Mrs. Marshal, High Minister, first of all,

5:50:08 | I would like to say that this situation that exists today is a completely unprecedented situation, that the Prosecutor General, the Minister of Justice,

5:50:18 | has provided us with information about the number of applications about operational control for the

5:50:24 | first time We also have the opportunity here to have an open debate debate and talk

5:50:29 | ask questions debate which also and not only students who are naze

5:50:37 | but also all citizens debate about a problem that is very important because

5:50:42 | it can enter the personal life of each of us each of us every ordinary person citizen

5:50:49 | And I must say that the fairy tales that the MP mentioned are your

5:50:59 | fairy tales, it’s yours, fairy tales, fairy tales and fairy tales about how everything was fine, everything

5:51:05 | was legal, everything was correct, everything was in accordance with the regulations,

5:51:11 | but somehow the Supreme Audit Office notices that it wasn’t exactly like that,

5:51:17 | as the European Parliament committee told us, it also indicated that it wasn’t like you

5:51:26 | said, the Senate committee also pointed out your irregularities. And who is telling these fairy tales, you will tell these fairy tales,

5:51:34 | I have to tell you the numbers given in this report. Please pay attention. because I don’t want

5:51:45 | to talk only about Pegasus because it is not just a problem of Pegasus itself, it is a general systemic problem, actually of operational control And why?

5:51:54 | See, 6,000 inspections last year What is the level of refusals

5:52:02 | 03 toet with this logic we have to say that the court

5:52:08 | is so it’s really not necessary at all because you need to pat every control anyway. And why? Because the system that exists, that existed, but that needs to be changed

5:52:19 | actually And I’m very glad that Mr. Attorney General notices this problem that actually exists.

5:52:28 | They are finally free, Mr. MP, they are finally free. free and we are slowly

5:52:33 | trying to repair what you have devastated among citizens lack of faith lack of perception of the law and true justice

5:52:41 | but I will come back to the topic Please note that only as I mentioned 0.3%

5:52:51 | 22 times the court refused refused even the system helps make it easier for the courts to refuse because

5:52:59 | when I take into account this application, I do not have to write a justification, if I do not take it into account, I have to write it,

5:53:08 | also looking at the practice. Please pay attention to what the applications that are submitted to the court actually look like. First of all, according to the system that

5:53:17 | exists today, law enforcement authorities can actually have 8 days wiretapping

5:53:23 | a citizen without the court’s consent for 8 days, that’s how it should be.

5:53:29 | I think that we shouldn’t consider whether this period should be shorter, that is, first of all, secondly, a citizen who was

5:53:38 | wiretapped, who was subjected to surveillance, if this material is not it will be used later after the charges have been laid, it will not be

5:53:46 | used against the person who committed the crime, was charged, was convicted on the basis of operational control, will never find out that

5:53:58 | such a wiretapping was used against him, will never receive this right, so

5:54:04 | constitutional, this two-instance system, to verify whether the decision that was

5:54:10 | issued by the court was issued based on all the relevant material

5:54:16 | with examples Even from my professional career, I can see what

5:54:22 | the preparation of such an application sometimes looks like, sometimes in these applications only the telephone number is provided, I forget that the court does not know whether it is

5:54:32 | eavesdropping with Pegasus or another software, but the ease with which they obtained these consents raises

5:54:42 | serious doubts and here we need to consider whether we should also move in this direction and not make changes in

5:54:52 | the scope of control by the citizen after the fact, after the fact, whether the wiretapping was

5:54:58 | used correctly, remember that,

5:55:03 | compared to the women’s apparatus, it is in an incomparably weaker position, the provisions of law must therefore provide

5:55:14 | citizens with effective tools to guarantee the protection of their rights and

5:55:21 | freedoms, and from the axiological point of view, they must provide a sense of security and trust in state authorities. In my opinion, this

5:55:30 | is not currently the case

5:55:37 | because we can make use of ready-made solutions of the legal systems of Western Europe, for example they can serve as an example. There is Germany,

5:55:46 | where the obligation to inform is implemented within 12 months from the completion of

5:55:51 | these operational activities, it seems that this deadline would be a good

5:55:57 | balance point between the effective performance of activities by the relevant services and protection rights and sensitive data

5:56:08 | Ladies and Gentlemen, as you can see, it is not about whether the wiretapping was

5:56:14 | used in accordance with the law, because we know what the system looks like, there must be court consent, there must be court consent from the prosecutor

5:56:22 | , etc. But whether it was really necessary from a life and procedural point of view, we are looking at

5:56:28 | one of the the way that was wiretapped, we are looking at prosecutor Wrzosek, we are looking

5:56:36 | at Mr Karnowski, are they criminals, are they people against

5:56:42 | whom any charges have been brought? Exactly no, and it shows that

5:56:49 | power corrupts and the changes that should be carried out in this system

5:56:54 | should be aimed at so that the citizen’s control over the surveillance that is used against him can be real and real.

5:57:04 | Thank you today, I invite you to speak, MP Michał grammar parliamentary club Poland

5:57:14 | 2050 Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, Your House, when I listen to

5:57:20 | this debate, I see three dimensions of this matter: dimension the technical operational investigation

5:57:27 | that is carried out with Pegasus Trojans is

5:57:33 | complete, everything is on the plate,

5:57:40 | how long do these types of systems have access to every bit of information

5:57:47 | on our devices, on our phones, nothing remains

5:57:53 | hidden, the second dimension is the process dimension, these consents are granted automatically

5:57:59 | just for this reason

5:58:06 | ZGs are granted to people who remain outside the circle of suspicion, who

5:58:11 | often even remain outside the proceedings, and finally, the Third Dimension,

5:58:17 | the human dimension. Please imagine that even though your life may be for some

5:58:24 | time, let it be mentioned by Mr. Śliza, 8 days were on

5:58:30 | the plate, it could have been observed by special service officers

5:58:36 | using extremely sophisticated technical means, you will never

5:58:42 | find out about it, even if you wanted to, no one will ever provide you

5:58:48 | with such information, and yet the state enters your life so deeply that

5:58:54 | it is impossible to go deeper – one quote from Mr. Minister Bodnar, in the era of new technologies, the temptation to reach for

5:59:06 | connections in operational work is being passed by the Sejm in a moment, the law on

5:59:11 | Electronic Communications is no secret to anyone that the minister coordinator of special services has requested that the

5:59:22 | decoding of instant messengers, e-mails,

5:59:27 | messengers with which We use a which encrypt messages in the End system

5:59:32 | to End Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not a method Where is the method, the method is in the work signed by both the

5:59:41 | Minister of Justice and Minister Cichocki in the work

5:59:46 | entitled Saddling Pegasus in the work which contains demands formulated by legal, social and political circles for a long time Judicial control of

5:59:59 | the use of operational techniques, the right of every Polish woman

6:00:04 | to be informed that she was under surveillance in connection with a particular case, when the case did not result in charges being brought

6:00:14 | against such a person or an indictment against such a person, and finally, the Pegasus reflection was accidentally discovered through the vulnerability of the Big Operating System

6:00:24 | through liability manufacturer of this operating system, if it hadn’t happened today, there wouldn’t be this discussion because no one ever knew that

6:00:35 | such powerful tools were in the hands of the services. Thank you, Mr. MP, I would like

6:00:42 | to welcome our guests to the gallery, this is a trip of teachers and students from

6:00:48 | the first Secondary School in Rzeszów who came to the Sejm at

6:00:53 | the invitation of the MP from Poland 2050, Elżbieta Burkiewicz, I send my best

6:01:00 | regards. I wish you a pleasant visit and listen to our deliberations. We are very happy. Please, MP Magdalena Sroka,

6:01:08 | parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the third way, Madam Speaker,

6:01:14 | Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber today on the occasion of the public annual information for

6:01:22 | which I would like to thank the Minister very warmly regarding the use of

6:01:27 | operational control in relation to the number of people in Poland. Of course, these data,

6:01:33 | the MP from the census, drew attention to the fact that operational control is actually about

6:01:40 | 6,7000 per year, these numbers from 220 are actually 6,500 in 2021,

6:01:50 | 6,900 people in 2023 Almost 6,000 people against whom

6:01:59 | operational control was used, at this point one should ask the question How many of these

6:02:04 | cases where the surveillance system is used against

6:02:11 | citizens actually end with verdicts in court cases this information, I

6:02:18 | hope that as a result of the work of the investigative committee we will also obtain the second part of

6:02:25 | the information, the minister devoted the Pegasus system to a system that operates in

6:02:31 | Poland outside the law and I will give you five reasons why the pegasus system is

6:02:36 | an illegal system, the first reason is the lack of authority to break

6:02:43 | the security of citizens’ devices, of course

6:02:50 | , on January 15, the government at that time amended the

6:02:57 | Police Act and certain other acts, adding the point of obtaining and recording

6:03:02 | data contained on information data carriers, this point

6:03:11 | is indicated as the basis for the use of the Pegasus system, while nowhere in this section is there any mention of breaking security, it only refers

6:03:22 | to obtaining and recording data which interestingly, in the Act on the

6:03:30 | Internal Security Agency, such a provision is that the

6:03:36 | Internal Security Agency has such powers that can break

6:03:41 | security, but only to determine the vulnerability of the assessed

6:03:48 | information system, while the Central Anti-Corruption Bureau does not have such powers,

6:03:54 | which is of course related to another reason, i.e. the accreditation of the system

6:03:59 | which has not been granted appropriate powers so that it

6:04:06 | can actually be used in Poland by Polish services, another reason is access

6:04:12 | to data older than operational control, as we know, operational control

6:04:17 | can be ordered for three months with the possibility of extension from exactly one day to a specific day, while for example

6:04:28 | the case Krzysztof brejza, we know that 80,000 messages dating back to 2010

6:04:35 | were downloaded from the phone of a person subject to

6:04:41 | operational control. Here I would like to tell all those who say and support

6:04:47 | this argument that paragraph five of Article 17 of the Act on the Central

6:04:54 | Corruption Bureau provides grounds for reaching given backwards Well, no, Ladies and

6:05:02 | Gentlemen, because a section of this act states that the time is

6:05:08 | specified very precisely, another reason is the lack of permission to modify

6:05:15 | the phone’s settings and here we know, for example from the testimony of the first witness who appeared before the investigative committee of Professor Kosiński, he exactly

6:05:23 | indicated the capabilities of the Pegasus system and the possibility of activating the microphone camera,

6:05:32 | he was present during the presentation that took place in Poland, presentation

6:05:37 | of the system used by the Polish services. Another reason is the lack of accreditation, which

6:05:44 | I mentioned earlier here. Pursuant to Article 48 of the Act on the Protection

6:05:50 | of Classified Information, each system should be accredited by this this system could not obtain accreditation

6:06:00 | Why is the fifth reason why this system is an illegal

6:06:06 | system used in Poland, namely the data, the Minister

6:06:12 | of Justice also spoke about it, the data obtained could be sent to servers in Israel, i.e. to

6:06:19 | the country Where did the company that produced this data come from? accreditation could also not be performed because the Internal Security Agency or

6:06:30 | the military counterintelligence service that provides credit for such systems would have to know

6:06:37 | the architecture of this system as well as the source code, and it was located in

6:06:42 | Israel. Another fifth reason why this system is an

6:06:49 | illegal system, Minister Bodnar mentioned that a very important principle in the use and application of operational control

6:06:58 | is subsidiarity, which means that operational control should be carried out after

6:07:06 | using all possibilities, and I hope that the inquiry that

6:07:12 | the prosecutor’s office is working on today will also be carried out in relation to

6:07:18 | whether this system was used after how completely different

6:07:25 | methods could have been used to prosecute possible crimes, today we are discussing

6:07:30 | such a delicate topic from the perspective of the Polish services. It is the fault of

6:07:35 | our predecessors. It is the fault of our predecessors who allowed the use of a system that went beyond legal standards. To be clear, the Polish

6:07:48 | services should have the best tools for fighting crime,

6:07:55 | for chasing terrorists, for chasing criminals, not for political fighting,

6:08:02 | everything points to this, your nerves, gentlemen, are really for

6:08:07 | nothing, all the actions you took towards Mrs. Marshal

6:08:14 | Please calm down, gentlemen, because I see that they are not keeping up the pressure. I know that this is a very sensitive matter for gentlemen Because the system that was

6:08:24 | also used in relation to politicians in relation to Krzysztof brejza Ryszard

6:08:32 | brejza Magdalena elk Roman Giertych

6:08:42 | wrzal Marchlewska second lieutenant Joanna jałocha General Waldemar violinist and

6:08:51 | so What could have been 578 times Ladies and gentlemen we are talking Ward

6:09:05 | like the best services in Poland, but we cannot lead to a situation where politicians come to their heads and use

6:09:15 | the system in Poland for political struggle. I would like to see the justification for the request

6:09:21 | for operational control in relation to female soldiers against whom

6:09:27 | this system of permanent surveillance was used. Whether these ladies

6:09:32 | were actually terrorists we could name the people, but there will

6:09:38 | still be time for that, I hope that this whole debate, both the work done by the Ministry of Justice, the prosecutor’s office, but also the commissions that have already

6:09:49 | completed their work, but also the commission of inquiry to investigate the Pegasus,

6:09:54 | will contribute to the development of legal norms, legal norms that never in

6:10:00 | the future will they allow politicians to take advantage of such

6:10:08 | d Thank you, Madam, I invite you, MP Tomasz, parliamentary club,

6:10:16 | left, speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable House, if we tried to go back 2 and a half

6:10:24 | years to the previous term, if it were possible to discuss it at all,

6:10:32 | the minister and said what do you even want to discuss, there is no Pegasus, we didn’t buy anything, what do you

6:10:41 | want from us today, the minister didn’t talk about it so willingly today, the minister cited some data from previous terms, so you would have to

6:10:50 | ask a question if it was so bad if you they believed that the services under your

6:10:56 | predecessors were working badly What you did for 8 years, you didn’t say anything about it, you didn’t do anything about it, but you did worse

6:11:06 | because in 2021 you entered and told the public and also

6:11:11 | the parliamentarians of the then opposition there is no pegasus I remember perfectly well one delinquent from Law and Justice who was putting his name on it

6:11:20 | social media a computer game, Minister Ziobro came out and said that

6:11:26 | it was a horse with wings, you brazenly said it to Poles’

6:11:31 | faces, knowing that they bought this software in 2017, you were so brazen that in 2017 you spent

6:11:43 | PLN 25 million from the justice fund they contributed the rest from the Central Anti-Corruption Bureau to come out in 2021 and say There is no Pegasus, there

6:11:53 | is no surveillance, we have proven it to you at this stage of the investigative commission’s work,

6:11:58 | we have shown you documents showing that the then Minister Woś was employed at the Ministry of Justice, yes

6:12:06 | really just to transfer PLN 25 million from the justice fund to the central anti-corruption office so that there would be Pegasus,

6:12:16 | so that your services under your control could with impunity surveil the early opposition judges, prosecutors, maybe other social groups and maybe

6:12:27 | even guilty citizens because you could have done it by mistake, I would like to thank the minister for presenting this information today. We

6:12:35 | will, of course, investigate it because we have more and more documents as an investigative committee, but I would like to draw attention to one more thing because the then

6:12:45 | deputy minister, Mr. Woś, by a strange coincidence, was on hand to

6:12:51 | receive it. this non-existent surveillance program called Pegasus and

6:12:56 | he described it more or less like this I entered a small room in this small

6:13:02 | room there were two servers two monitors somehow this Pegasus functioned there

6:13:07 | someone was there to handle it and today the biggest task for the prosecutor’s office the biggest task for the commission investigation is to check whether

6:13:17 | the head of the central anti-corruption office did not come to this small room and gave his phone number on a small piece of paper so that he could check it. Or maybe check

6:13:26 | what he has in this phone. Or maybe check what photos there are. Or maybe verify what correspondence there is. can intercept these

6:13:35 | J and modify them, because Professor Kosiński, who was at the first meeting of the investigative committee, told

6:13:43 | us very precisely and very clearly that the software had the ability to interfere with, for example, a mobile phone, for example, a tablet and

6:13:53 | make modifications, knowing your approach to managing the state, knowing

6:13:59 | your approach to managing the truth, you were capable of it,

6:14:05 | we need to verify it and we need to check it because if it turns out that you once

6:14:11 | submitted an application to the prosecutor’s office, the prosecutor’s office applied to the court for permission,

6:14:17 | and once you gave cards to employees of the central anti-corruption office or other service to find out what is on this phone or another phone Well,

6:14:28 | this is an incredible scandal and it needs to be verified because it’s so easy and easy for you to lie to the public that there is no

6:14:37 | software, that you didn’t buy anything, and we prove after a few months that you bought it, that you have chosen to participate in this procedure,

6:14:46 | what is the end really? I think that time will tell and this will actually be

6:14:53 | the scale of what we want to achieve in parliament as the Investigative Committee and

6:14:59 | regardless of what the prosecutor’s office and investigators from the prosecutor’s office will do,

6:15:06 | but one thing is certain if it were not for the voters October 15 You would

6:15:13 | continue to do it, you would continue to check, you would continue to eavesdrop, you would continue to record, you would continue

6:15:22 | to take over

6:15:30 | the verified, just to show that the opposition, the early opposition, was evil and we are

6:15:37 | the best And we are the best because these were the methods of your operation and

6:15:42 | we need to talk about these methods because we caught you lying at several meetings of the investigative commission, the lie of Jarosław Kaczyński, who says that maybe he

6:15:51 | knew something, maybe he heard something, but when he was asked several times, it turns out that there was a discussion at the security committee in the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, but there was

6:16:00 | a discussion about Pegasus. And before that, there was no Pegasus. Minister Ziobro said that he had not heard about Pegasus and Deputy Minister Woś says that he reported

6:16:09 | that he reported to his political principal and superior in the ministry

6:16:15 | that there is a conclusion that we will buy such software, you are simply lying about this matter at every step and we every day yours

6:16:26 | we expose the lies, but our goal is the goal of the investigative commission for the prosecutor’s office,

6:16:31 | I will not comment on the purpose of the investigative commission, Ania, in the final report that you

6:16:37 | bought this software only to collect hacks on people, to use these hooks, and if there are no hooks, to modify

6:16:47 | these messages to create these hooks and it is reprehensible, it is reprehensible and it

6:16:52 | should never happen again in the future, no matter who will rule our country, we will check it, we will verify it, we will show the

6:17:02 | public what you have been doing for years. Thank you, Mr. MP , I

6:17:10 | invite you to speak. Mr. Przemysław, the parliamentary club,

6:17:18 | Confederation, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, listening to the speech of Minister

6:17:25 | Bodnar and the Prosecutor General, I have a very, very high

6:17:33 | number of questions that were mentioned in this report, these are numbers very

6:17:41 | comparable to what happened in previous years, as mentioned by

6:17:46 | my colleagues. from Law and Justice when we see what the situation of wiretapping has been like since 2011, it was a record year, let me tell you

6:17:55 | exactly, I have a table, it was a record year, gentlemen, it was 2021, when there were

6:18:03 | 771 requests for operational control, there were

6:18:09 | 1,500 requests, over 1,500 requests more than in the record year under your

6:18:16 | predecessors, percentage wise half a thousand more applications for PLN 7,000, this is a gigantic

6:18:21 | difference, at the same time, it is terrifying that the courts are constantly rejecting

6:18:26 | applications, that per mille less than per mille, these applications are rejected

6:18:32 | by the courts, 22 rejections during 2023 tells us one thing – there is no real

6:18:40 | control over how the way Poles are under surveillance, overheard, how

6:18:45 | the authorities reach into their privacy, into their intimacy, various institutions and services, and the most important thing in this debate is that during the party

6:18:54 | squabbles, we do not lose what is most important in this matter, pegasos is a very invasive tool, very

6:19:05 | involved in reaching into privacy of Poles but it was used 500 dozens

6:19:11 | of times over several years, it can be said that it is an elite device

6:19:16 | for the best ones, for the exceptional ones, for the most difficult cases, but as we already know the facts showing that it was used absolutely

6:19:26 | inadequately. Is the gentleman sitting here a spy, a terrorist

6:19:36 | after all? kwia prosecutor’s office, such

6:19:42 | a tool was used, it is absolutely disproportionate, the problem we have with Pegasus, it is part of an element of a larger, broader problem, a problem that

6:19:53 | we finally have to face. What I missed the most in Minister Bodnar’s speech was specifics, saying that

6:20:03 | judges need to be trained on how to train them. How much money is there for this How many will be trained What should be done to prevent judges from receiving several dozen applications a day,

6:20:12 | one judge with very extensive documentation, how the judge can then get acquainted with it We decided with our colleagues from

6:20:20 | the Confederation club to do something very perverse because we are talking about diagnoses about

6:20:26 | a disease about problems but we are not talking about solutions and we want

6:20:32 | to motivate the government majority to act faster and more actively in fixing these problems and Ladies and Gentlemen, we have decided to submit a project

6:20:41 | entitled the Operational Labor Code, a project that was presented last year on

6:20:47 | April 17 by politicians of the Civic Coalition by the former head of the security agency internal lord Colonel General

6:20:56 | Brigadier Bondaryk and MPs Kropiwnicki many other MPs politicians from the ruling coalition my gentlemen, do what

6:21:06 | you said to do a year ago If you want to work on something better and more precise, let’s work in the Sejm but a year

6:21:15 | since that event 7 months since they took over the majority High

6:21:21 | Chamber This is enough time to stop talking about scaring, dwelling on the past,

6:21:27 | dealing with the future and starting to protect civil rights more strongly, protecting civil rights, this is you against the abuse of Pegasus,

6:21:36 | the abuse of other wiretaps because they are abused, if only in the case of a few

6:21:42 | percent of wiretaps, charges are later brought, the case is even smaller the number of cases that go to court is what

6:21:52 | over 80 percent of the remaining people are wiretapped

6:21:59 | trespassing I will say it straight, this is the accusation that I think, I am able to prove that the data resulting from the wiretapping are

6:22:08 | used not only in the political fight, but also in the competitive business fight, because we are not only talking about these 7 5 ip 6 thousand

6:22:19 | wiretappings other than Pegazus, we are talking about how how the service and officers

6:22:25 | obtain data from public registers how data flows from BTSs from

6:22:31 | various other reservoirs of data which the state collects, there is more and more of them in a country that is becoming more and more

6:22:40 | digitized, information is collected from its citizens, an increasing amount of data can be leaked and, unfortunately, it is leaking I have

6:22:49 | witnessed when, in a conversation in which I was a participant, one person

6:22:56 | closely associated with the then camp called me and quoted an SMS from the messenger,

6:23:06 | so I won’t say I don’t have one. I will say in other words, let

6:23:13 | Minister Bodnar say which MPs, not only of the current government and

6:23:19 | the former opposition, but also of the current opposition, were wiretapped with the Pegasus only

6:23:26 | the names of the injured and potentially injured people from the current majority were mentioned. And the question I would like to be answered was whether Minister Ardanowski

6:23:35 | was bugged with the Pegasus and the number of other politicians who are currently

6:23:41 | in the opposition we do not know about them yet and I think it would be good to have a lot more information heard here Thank you

6:23:48 | very much, thank you, I invite the MP, MP Grzegorz Braun will take the floor,

6:23:55 | parliamentary club , Confederation, God bless all the good cops,

6:24:05 | three-letter roses, not only those who actually work hard to ensure that

6:24:11 | the Polish state is exposed to a constant high risk, among others, by

6:24:16 | the High Chamber, through the actions and omissions of those changing governments, despite

6:24:22 | everything, they are trying to ensure that the Polish state survives, their

6:24:27 | Confederation greets them, the council of heaven, accept them, we count on the

6:24:35 | security, there are still people who want to serve the Polish state,

6:24:41 | we agree, Mr. Minister, Prosecutor General, that many injustices have accumulated thanks to the rule of the united right wing

6:24:51 | and I don’t know only if we agree that one of these injustices is the failure to account for sufficiently vigorous injustices during

6:25:01 | the previous regime, the participants of which today sit in the high

6:25:07 | house and also sit in cabinets and supervise, control and command

6:25:15 | the Polish services, the longer the more often it is pronounced in high the magic word

6:25:22 | pegasus the word of this season, the stronger the impression that

6:25:30 | it is a very useful tool for creating a smoke screen over

6:25:37 | other other manifestations of inventiveness of the officers of these bad

6:25:42 | cops Well, the accusatory finger here is pointed at the representatives

6:25:47 | of the united EU right who did not hold this accountable, who allowed this to happen that various investigations were discontinued, involving

6:25:57 | such outstanding people as Brigadier General Bondaryk and

6:26:03 | the Minister, as the current Minister, the head of the Chancellery of the Speaker of the Sejm, who at one time supervised the operation of

6:26:13 | the three-letter services. And in those days, we had the case of

6:26:19 | surveillance of wiretapping of journalists violating the journalistic secrecy and

6:26:25 | the media of your dear united ura of your propaganda buffer zone,

6:26:31 | at one time published such letters from journalists Well, when

6:26:37 | they didn’t make it to some extent, I won’t put a dot above it and maybe Minister Bodnar will do it,

6:26:43 | maybe Minister Bodnar will return to all these illegal

6:26:48 | wiretappings I will ask, Mr. Minister, whether it is still practiced and whether on your

6:26:55 | watch Would you tolerate it, to practice such insidious activities as, for example, ordering unlicensed wiretapping

6:27:05 | as part of the training of secret service adepts, they are given some numbers to

6:27:13 | listen to, note down, and catch, but that is all as part of the training, it’s true,

6:27:18 | there is no operation, there is no formal questionnaire,

6:27:23 | is it still happening or is it still happening? I personally had the pleasure of undergoing

6:27:34 | such investigations, namely, as reported by the media at the time

6:27:41 | , investigated as part of the Operation, cemeteries with suspicion, attention from

6:27:50 | suspected anti-Russian activities around 2010. At that time, various other veterans of Polish

6:28:00 | public life p editor Pospieszalski lady editor director Stankiewicz and others

6:28:06 | Well, it was finally separated because in your times my surname was the right surname to prosecute unrighteousness peie they moved

6:28:16 | it to Szczecin he was explaining something there. Nothing came of it. An appeal to you, Mr.

6:28:22 | Minister, to look into it thoroughly. Thank you, Mr. MP. I invite you

6:28:29 | to speak, Mr. Jarosław Sachajko, parliamentary group, kukis 15,

6:28:36 | Ms. Speaker, Mr. Minister, the High Chamber, Mr. Minister. Thank you, of course,

6:28:41 | for this report, but Mr. Professor, the campaign is over. Today you had

6:28:47 | the opportunity to end the spectacle, prompting Poles to end numerous speculations related to Pegasus, you could have ended the Polish-Polish war, at least in the case of Pegasus,

6:28:55 | I will not go into

6:29:01 | PR about justice and the ruling coalition, who

6:29:07 | took more billings because I used these billings myself as an employee of the prosecutor’s office and most of the billings were needed to detect crimes

6:29:17 | called grandson’s names, really hundreds of these billings were needed to find

6:29:22 | these thieves and it seems to be a minor crime, but this minor crime

6:29:28 | required these hundreds of billings because these crimes were very, very – the

6:29:34 | victims. I am concerned about the supervision, Minister. courts regarding consent to wiretaps

6:29:44 | 03% refusal seriously, this is real surveillance why has the minister not yet

6:29:51 | presented any statutory proposals for changes to this disastrous supervision After all, we have courts to protect citizens from the power of

6:30:04 | the minister. What percentage of wiretapping were accurate and resulted in verdicts?

6:30:09 | was there someone who would tell us anything whether these wiretaps were necessary or not? You didn’t say whether the procedures

6:30:19 | for destroying unnecessary materials are correct in Poland.

6:30:25 | Politics through tape should have been ended

6:30:31 | a long time ago . The last tape, called the tape, did not come from such

6:30:40 | materials. operational activities, the minister said that there may have been cases where

6:30:49 | an inspection is carried out under the pretext of finding a minor crime. Maybe something else will be found, and

6:30:54 | this immediately came to my mind: the search of Minister Ziobro’s house without his presence, you entered there like bandits.

6:31:04 | And maybe something else will be found, Minister. Shame, Mr. Minister, there should be no such thing, and back to Pegasus, because you didn’t

6:31:16 | say anything today, they are fueling the uncertainty that exists in society.

6:31:22 | Maybe it suits you, but as I said, the elections are over and you are the minister responsible for it, and it turns out that

6:31:30 | the Republic of Poland in In March this year, she wrote to Pegasus how it operated, what materials it provided to whom, and who

6:31:40 | was wiretapped, contrary to what the chairwoman of this magical hater

6:31:46 | committee about Pegasus said, it is written that there were two computers in the CBA headquarters, that is how Pegazus operated in Poland, so the materials

6:31:55 | did not go anywhere outside Poland, Mr. Chairman, it was good that Mrs. knew about it since Rzeczpospolita knew about the license Poland had purchased and what this license

6:32:09 | allowed. In the Rzeczpospolita article it is written that our

6:32:14 | version of Pegasus that we purchased could not interfere with the content of the phone , i.e. the whole framework that you were talking about, that you could turn on the camera, that

6:32:24 | you could download files in this article it is written that this is untrue the court consciously gave consent to the surveillance of encrypted messengers

6:32:34 | this is another piece of information that was included in this article Mr.

6:32:41 | Minister, you have been in power for almost 5 months, why hasn’t the minister stopped so far? He put an end to all these speculations, no you revealed those people

6:32:51 | who, according to politicians, were unjustly

6:32:59 | wiretapped Why does the professor continue to allow himself to be involved in this

6:33:07 | Polish-Polish war present real changes now, or even a few weeks ago,

6:33:15 | how wiretapping is carried out and how it should be installed, what

6:33:21 | it looks like supervising how materials are destroyed and if there was something

6:33:28 | wrong, you now have access to all documents to all services

6:33:34 | allegations should be made if there was anything wrong, because if there was anything wrong, please judge it, show it to the public, so that we

6:33:44 | can really live peacefully here in Poland, because we have

6:33:50 | a tragic war on the eastern border. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP, for a minute’s correction, Mrs. Sroka, but what is the correction, Mr.

6:34:01 | the mode is used, stop

6:34:09 | speaking, Mr. MP, please check the recording and most of it is white, here is a correction, Madam Speaker.

6:34:18 | Thank you very much, Ladies and Gentlemen, he thunders from the podium

6:34:23 | , referring to an article in Rzeczpospolita, an article that consisted in

6:34:29 | describing a reality that does not exist, I can tell you,

6:34:36 | we cannot tell you yet I would like to tell you how much of a mistake the text you

6:34:41 | referred to, Mr. Sachajko, is, but please believe that you should

6:34:47 | wait patiently for the moment when you will be able to get acquainted with all the

6:34:53 | actual knowledge on this subject. my speech And this is in accordance with the rules of the Sejm, the law,

6:35:02 | just

6:35:08 | a minute, really a minute, no, Mr. Please come forward, the correction is now,

6:35:14 | that was the end of the speeches, the Sejm on behalf of the clubs, after the questions, I will give you half

6:35:19 | a minute of correction, good day. That’s the end of the speeches on behalf of the clubs and groups, I’m opening the discussion.

6:35:30 | MP Grzegorz Braun will speak first, club confederation , I set the time to a minute Mr. Minister, yes, this list

6:35:41 | under surveillance undoubtedly illegally Stankiewicz Pospieszalski Jan

6:35:47 | Pietrzak Jan Piński Waldemar Łysiak Marek pza and me unworthy Grzegorz Braun earlier

6:35:59 | toik pact

6:36:05 | aa sooner not later because it’s a list from 2012

6:36:11 | journalists revealed by the Minister of Security Kamiński,

6:36:17 | omitting the names of those who were involved in matters of surveillance of foreign journalists

6:36:27 | suspected of the activity of spy agencies but

6:36:35 | Well, gociek gmys Gargas gursztyn Jachowicz jakucki

6:36:42 | jank Mrs. Patrycja Kotecka Mrs. ministers and so on and so forth I think

6:36:48 | these are matters worth to come to some conclusion, Mr. Minister, and the fact

6:36:54 | that it is Bondaryk and Cichocki in some position, Jacek,

6:37:02 | of quiet integrity, should not be subjected to your investigator’s inevitable accusatory

6:37:08 | hand, I invite you to speak. Mr. Witold Tumanowicz, the member of parliament, Konfederacja club, I would also like to say that I am closing the list of those willing to ask questions, Madam Speaker,

6:37:18 | Honorable Chamber. I do not give in. doubts that the scale of abuses in the use of wiretapping during the PiS government was scandalous and it needs to be accounted for,

6:37:26 | especially with the unjustified use of surveillance, including Pegasus, against people who ultimately were not charged with anything,

6:37:33 | today’s entire debate is, however, just a mere pummeling of accusations by you, who was surveilling Poles, or who was he had civil rights and I’ll tell you this,

6:37:42 | both sides are right. You are worth each other. During the first PO PSL government, you used surveillance on a large scale and even used long-term

6:37:51 | mining arrests without bringing any charges. An additional hypocrisy is that you are now working on the Pegasus plus project, i.e. the

6:38:00 | Communication Law Act. electronic means through which the grievance coordinator will gain access to encrypted messengers, e-mail of each Pole, when they regain power,

6:38:10 | will you step into PiS shoes, or maybe you will support the draft Act on the Operational Labor Code, which covers the Protection of Civil Rights, which we are now

6:38:19 | submitting as a Confederation club, this is your quite new project a year ago, but it is known from the government benches that the perspective is changing, thank you, thank you, Mr. MP,

6:38:29 | I invite you, Mirosław, steam club after 53, dear, thank you very much, Dear

6:38:36 | Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber, Mr. Minister, this is a very important topic, for the last 8 years we have been stigmatized by every

6:38:46 | attempt to grant further powers to the service surveillance of citizens today, these regulations are so bloated that, in principle, citizens can be

6:38:57 | viewed, wiretapped, surveilled in all possible ways for over

6:39:02 | a week without any specific questions, Mr. Minister. Does the government really intend to expand the powers of the services to

6:39:11 | surveillance, which, after all these years, would be an absolute contradiction of what

6:39:16 | we have all been talking about here, secondly, does the Government intend to introduce regulations creating either institutions or an office in the Office

6:39:25 | of the Ombudsman which institution or which office would have the possibility of subsequent control of

6:39:34 | how the services are using the powers that have been granted by statute and,

6:39:40 | finally, does the government intend to introduce regulations

6:39:45 | clarifying the issues regarding applications submitted to the court by the services regarding consent to surveillance, because today the consent of the courts here

6:39:56 | is very illusory, please answer

6:40:01 | the questions, very questions in writing Thank you, Mr. Thank you, I invite you to speak. Mr. Paweł Slippery, the parliamentary club, Poland 2050 TR, dear Madam,

6:40:12 | Mrs. Speaker, Honorable Chamber, Mr. Minister, I actually have three questions about one problem that the Minister has already mentioned in his speech,

6:40:21 | namely the justification of the proposals. Does the government see or

6:40:27 | intend to make changes to the justification for the application for consent

6:40:32 | to surveillance was in both cases of a positive and negative decision, also Is it necessary in these urgent cases whether the

6:40:43 | deadline allowing for this surveillance to be as long as 8 days TR days for the authorities 5 days for the court or this time is not

6:40:52 | too long for such free and unrestricted surveillance and

6:40:57 | the last one which, in my opinion, would be such a breakthrough moment, can we

6:41:03 | consider making changes aimed at ensuring that the citizen who was subjected to surveillance is subject to surveillance? And these operational activities

6:41:13 | did not bring any effect. after this fact, do not inform the citizen and give him the opportunity to verify these circumstances. Thank you.

6:41:24 | Thank you, Mr. MP. I invite you, Mr. Jacek Karnowski, the parliamentary club, the Civic Coalition, Mrs. High Marshal, the Sejm,

6:41:34 | today there are cowards and the MPs of Law and Justice are hiding behind

6:41:40 | the judges’ backs. And do you know how good this procedure in court is? what it looks like 20 years ago,

6:41:45 | I went through two detention sessions, the court received 60 volumes of files, 40 volumes of

6:41:50 | attachments and had a few hours to prepare it, of course, it was prepared by the service of your hero, former MP Mariusz Kamiński, prepared it,

6:42:01 | a special agent in May, then a dozen or so years later, he was chasing the family of Brej and what happened

6:42:07 | it turned out what the BRE case was about – the purchase of plush

6:42:12 | squirrels, the purchase of inflatable balloons and a bouncy castle, the rental, and it was

6:42:18 | an indictment, but not against them, only on this basis they extorted,

6:42:23 | extorted consent to surveillance of BJ’s family, aren’t you ashamed of it, now

6:42:31 | you are running nervously, you have a flat tire in the first bench, or maybe you are laughing nervously because you are so nervous about this and I have a question for the minister, do we know how many

6:42:42 | rapists, terrorists, VAT traders or

6:42:47 | drug dealers are involved in these frauds? Because we, MP Gitrytych and MEP B, do not know

6:42:53 | where to commit ourselves, thank you very much thank you very much, Mr. MP, I invite you , Mr. Bartosz Romowicz, Parliamentary Club, Poland TR, dear

6:43:03 | dear Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Mr. MEPs, Mr. MPs, I will go further on this topic, which Mr. Gosek I am asking you to be serious,

6:43:13 | please, because we are about to read the first version

6:43:20 | of Are you disturbing the proceedings? will you behave? Well then, please,

6:43:25 | Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, I would like

6:43:31 | to ask a question, dear Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, I will continue the topic

6:43:39 | started by Mr. Karnowski, I would like to ask a specific question to the Minister because this debate in fact, it aims to determine how

6:43:48 | we should conduct operational activities in relation to our citizens, and the point is really the minister’s information about the scale of what

6:43:56 | happened. I have a specific question whether you are able to answer us today, if not, please answer in writing. What was the scale of eavesdropping and,

6:44:04 | in particular, the use of PEG towards local government officials in Poland, especially local government officials who were in opposition to Law and Justice? Thank you very much

6:44:12 | Thank you, MEP. I invite you, MEP Klaudia Jachira, parliamentary club, Civic coalition

6:44:21 | , Madam Speaker, Honorable House, what do dictators dream of? They want to know

6:44:28 | our thoughts because they are afraid of losing power under Stalinism. It was an army of spies during

6:44:33 | martial law. Telephone conversations were tapped. such as Kaczyński and Ziobro are weapons

6:44:44 | that can destroy the foundations of a democratic state, they directed all their momentum

6:44:49 | against the opposition, social activists, activists against the intelligentsia and people of culture, and even against victims of crimes, as

6:44:58 | was the case with women serving in the Military Police who reported to the NAP in the same military police where

6:45:05 | Private MP Kaczyński’s private bodyguards were employed on the wrong side and to think that only half a year ago we lived when each of us in this

6:45:17 | room could be under surveillance, no one was safe, not even the closest

6:45:22 | associates of little Big Brother, after all, before Kaczyński got the Pegasus, he had been collecting denunciations in his office for years. private archive today

6:45:34 | Hanie of recent history C to make up for the victims and convict the guilty Mr. Min Thank you,

6:45:42 | MP, I invite you, MP Krzysztof Szczucki,

6:45:48 | Law and Justice parliamentary club, Dear Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, Mr. Minister, I am happy with your speech, you will offend

6:46:03 | the judge who does not really know what he is expressing. the consent of a judge who is so

6:46:09 | lazy that he does not want to write a justification, therefore he gives consent to the use of operational and exploratory methods to a judge

6:46:17 | who does not want to ask questions, to a judge who, in the name of taking care of his free time,

6:46:24 | is able to sacrifice someone’s privacy on the altar of civil liberties

6:46:30 | and so on just in case, consent to the methods requested by the services. Question: Mr. Minister, how many

6:46:39 | criminal proceedings and how many applications for the waiver of judicial immunities are currently being prepared in the Prosecutor’s Office against judges who failed

6:46:48 | to fulfill their duties and, in your opinion, consented to the use of pegasus when it was not necessary use it Thank you Thank you,

6:46:57 | MP I invite you, MP Gabriela Lenartowicz, parliamentary club, Civic Coalition

6:47:05 | , Madam High Marshal, Sejm, no matter how you try

6:47:12 | to downplay it, this is not a debate on eavesdropping on criminals, Mr.

6:47:18 | Righteous or the Sovereign, today these statistics, these comparisons of yours, are just

6:47:23 | an expression of infantile arrogance, just like when you were talking about the Communist console or a horse with wings and now it is just a cycle of pathetic helplessness

6:47:32 | in the face of shocking facts and arguments, here today we have a debate about something dramatically

6:47:38 | serious about cyber weapons and their brazen use against their own citizens by the degenerate state that they gave us, it is a debate about

6:47:47 | a spectacular ruined trust in law enforcement agencies and citizens deprived of the sense of security on the part of state authorities because we must remember that

6:47:57 | only foreign institutions stepped up to defend our citizens and informed them

6:48:02 | that they were under attack. Cyber weapons were intended to hunt down terrorists, which. Moreover, even the seller of this system forced him to recover from this trauma

6:48:11 | . only a victim, but it will be difficult for the entire Polish society to get back together because how can you ensure that this question to the minister is how he will ensure that

6:48:22 | these stolen and manipulated pieces of human life. Such a kind of Frankenstein will not remain in the hands of the enemy of the enemy and in a country that covers

6:48:33 | the enemy’s cover with the alleged consent of the court and that lurking following servers

6:48:39 | scattered around the world of dramas Thank you, thank you, MP, I invite you, MP

6:48:44 | Jacek Ozdoba, Law and Justice parliamentary club, Dear Madam Speaker, Dear Minister, Prosecutor General, I am directing these words to you

6:48:52 | because I have just informed you that a crime could have been committed in this room. I suspect that this information will permeate this entire debate,

6:49:00 | I will not talk about this speech by Mr TR, information given publicly should

6:49:08 | most likely not take place in this room in this capacity, which is why I am sending this information and I would also like to inform you that apart from informing you that it could have

6:49:18 | investigation into the crime, I would like to inform you that the relevant prosecutor’s office has already received such a notification in electronic form. Thank

6:49:26 | you very much, thank you, Mr.

6:49:40 | Marshal, Mr. Minister, I listened carefully to your report, it

6:49:45 | was one big cap, you know, a balloon that has been inflated over the last few days. You were supposed to give it to everyone here today. shocking

6:49:53 | information to the public and what you have provided is less than what the media has been reporting this morning, this is the most interesting You are the prosecutor general You are talking about a number of people from

6:50:01 | public life who were wiretapped, I mean these 500 people over these few years, how many people do you mean, how many politicians are among them? people how many

6:50:11 | opposition politicians how many politicians are among those in power Please tell me why don’t you say it? You are the prosecutor general. You say that

6:50:20 | the investigative team will provide information to the public on an ongoing basis and this is the essence of your action, Mr. prosecutor, because you are playing with it, you know

6:50:30 | what is the most important the information from your speech is that all wiretapping were legal, you didn’t say that, but you didn’t say that

6:50:38 | they were illegal, so as an intelligent person, I would like to add some additional information, thank you, I invite you, MP Witold

6:50:48 | Zembaczyński, parliamentary club, Civic Coalition, Dear Speaker, Dear Members of Parliament, Dear Minister, great words

6:50:58 | of appreciation because, unlike your predecessor, as the Minister of Justice, you stand on the side of the victims and

6:51:06 | this is a certain division of roles on the path to solving the Pegasus scandal, and so

6:51:12 | you are an ambassador of the legal interest of all those who can be considered victims today, the prosecutor’s office, of course, deals with office

6:51:21 | are the perpetrators And we, as the Investigative Committee, want to explain this matter to the bottom and this is very important because the Investigative Committee is actually the only institution, the only

6:51:29 | body of the Sejm that is able to gather prosecutors, special services, courts,

6:51:36 | interrogate witnesses and show the public this brazen abuse of power,

6:51:42 | powers that actually constitute signs of the activities of an organized criminal group, which was the use of cyber weapons in the form of covert interference such

6:51:49 | as Pegasus on electronic terminal devices, but we have a historic moment to show this truth to the public To explain this

6:51:57 | scandal because the populists who have ruled so far used Pegasus,

6:52:04 | the right-wing population can already in Poland use nook Thank you very much thank you very much MP

6:52:10 | I invite you MP Michał grammar parliamentary club Poland

6:52:15 | 2053 dear I don’t see your MP I invite you MP Marcin Konieczka

6:52:21 | parliamentary club Poland 2050 TR dear Madam Speaker Madam Minister

6:52:28 | Today’s high debate shows that in Poland

6:52:34 | the data quoted today and in particular The issue of the purchase and

6:52:39 | use of the Pazus system shows that the previous

6:52:46 | authorities undermined citizens’ trust in the state, which is why today, after many years

6:52:51 | of expanding the powers of the surveillance services, an analysis by

6:52:58 | the Chamber of Minimum is needed .

6:53:04 | The Polish road believes that an institution should be created that will supervise

6:53:09 | the use of surveillance techniques by the services, we must do everything to

6:53:15 | rebuild trust. citizens to our country Thank you very much, thank you very much,

6:53:20 | Mr. MP, I invite you, MP Sebastian Kaleta, Law and Justice parliamentary club, Madam Speaker, High Marshal of the Sejm

6:53:32 | , the clouds of many years, the cloud of the great Pegasus scandal of mass surveillance,

6:53:37 | we learn that, in fact, we are dealing with a little rain, we learn that the process, the operational control it was not a mass trial, it was

6:53:48 | a point trial, but what is important, we learn that there was no illegal procedure because it all took place with the consent of the courts and the

6:53:59 | minister is saying here that there are some injured people in this room and you have already been a prosecutor in connection with these publications you are shouting

6:54:07 | about cooperatives, Mrs. God, calm down because the media wrote that someone

6:54:12 | wanted bribes and now he is very loud, Mrs. Marshal, Mr. MP, please, please, Mr. MP,

6:54:22 | you have calmed down Please

6:54:29 | speak up p please

6:54:34 | sec to Please finish your speech, i.e.

6:54:40 | all I’m waiting for the signal, i.e. this whole case, it turns out that the courts

6:54:47 | agreed to everything, this is the Pegasus case and I thank you, Minister, for showing it to the public today and telling the injured people, so who is this

6:54:56 | wrongdoer, the perpetrator of these injured people, Mr. Judge, Mr. judge gąciarek questions to the minister to the minister

6:55:04 | I have a question Mrs. Masha once again some hot-up PR MP please

6:55:09 | ask Mr. Minister In connection with the above that you also said in your

6:55:17 | speech that this case had been detected, that the Polish state used such operational techniques this type, for example,

6:55:26 | the ability to view correspondence in applications such as WhatsApp Messenger of this

6:55:31 | type I have a question about moo technor yes

6:55:40 | oan services using such software I hope you will be able to answer I understand I am sure you will say Thank you, Mr. 20 minutes, you had

6:55:49 | an extension Thank you very much, you are welcome MP Roman Giertych parliamentary club Civic coalition Madam Speaker Mr. Minze p concerns

6:56:03 | January of the year when Gazeta Wyborcza reported that recorded conversations

6:56:10 | between me and Mr. Donald Tusk, the then chairman of the European Council, were forwarded to various people from Law and

6:56:20 | Justice and in the context of what the prosecutor said today that were also available on the servers of the country of origin,

6:56:29 | the Pegasus program , apply the qualifications from Article 130 of the Criminal Code to assess this entire

6:56:40 | procedure, i.e. the article talking about espionage Al, because here

6:56:46 | data from the conversations of the President of the European Council , i.e. the most important institution of the European Union, were collected and transferred to a country

6:56:56 | that may be an ally but in some matters there is a conflict of interest with the European Union in this context, in my opinion, this qualification would be

6:57:05 | the most justified. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP. I invite you, Mr. Jarosław

6:57:11 | Sachajko, near kugis. 15 Thank you, Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, I have

6:57:18 | 100 specific items with me for 100 days, specific number 65, we will reveal the lists of people. illegally

6:57:23 | wiretapped and issuing illegal decisions on wiretapping of citizens

6:57:29 | More than 100 days have passed, Mr. Minister, regarding what I said in my speech, how much calmer today’s debate would be, how much calmer society

6:57:38 | would be if you had kept specific number 65, I also have your coalition agreement

6:57:43 | with me and what we read here the coalition will limit the number

6:57:49 | of services authorized to perform operational and reconnaissance activities, where is it, when will it be? List all these services

6:57:59 | here again, the multitude of services that can be continued, you write, citizens will have the right to information about

6:58:09 | the services’ interest in them, in particular information about the conducted operational control towards them This ending seems extremely absurd, although

6:58:18 | please explain it Thank you Thank you very much, Mr.

6:58:24 | Marcin Przyczak, MP, Law and Justice parliamentary club. Thank you very much , Madam Speaker, Dear Minister. I think that many of your voters may feel

6:58:34 | dissatisfied or disappointed today. Well, you did not provide

6:58:40 | any new important information that would not have been in public circulation before

6:58:46 | , on the contrary, many narratives were built about the mass nature of

6:58:51 | illegal wiretapping and the illegality of these wiretapping, you yourself indicated that over the course of several years there were several hundred

6:59:00 | wiretapping and all of them took place with the consent of courts, my question

6:59:05 | to the minister is precisely about these court consents. Can you tell us in how many cases the judges

6:59:14 | requested in-depth information before providing Before making a decision, in how many

6:59:19 | cases they requested access to the case files and in how many cases they requested

6:59:25 | additional justification for the application for the use of operational control, one

6:59:30 | more statement, ladies and gentlemen, from today’s

6:59:40 | debate, specifically , during Mr Trela’s speech, there was a violation of

6:59:49 | the provisions on the protection of classified information Internal Affairs will check whether the

6:59:57 | MP I invite the MP Franciszek

7:00:05 | Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber of the House, pegasus allowed the PiS government

7:00:11 | to surveil representatives of the opposition and citizens inconvenient to the authorities by illegal means and practically without judicial control or with

7:00:27 | illusion, here: MP Jacek Karnowski,

7:00:34 | MP Marcin Bosacki and several hundred people after simply, these justifications

7:00:42 | for security protection, the reasons they gave

7:00:48 | as the goal of Pegasus, sound simply perverse today, in fact, it is

7:00:54 | simply a tool of brutal and uncontrolled surveillance in order to simply look into the private lives of citizens

7:01:04 | who are inconvenient for the PiS authorities, but Mr. Minister, one question, I know that every this

7:01:11 | illegal PiS surveillance will be accounted for and investigated, I have no

7:01:16 | doubt that this will happen, but today I would just like to ask about these several hundred victims whether, and in what manner and time, the victims of this surveillance can

7:01:26 | count on compensation. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP. I would like to invite MP Barbara Oliwia to the club. Poland 2050 TR dear Thank you very much,

7:01:38 | Mr. Marshal, Honorable House, Franklin said that whoever sacrifices human freedom for temporary security means that he does not

7:01:47 | deserve either security or freedom because PiS does not understand them, he sacrificed not only the freedom of Poles, OPC, for

7:01:57 | the security of not the state but his party’s interests. the pathology has already been stopped, we will settle it, but we must actually

7:02:05 | fundamentally change the system and we must find the balance between

7:02:10 | the activities of the services and human freedom, it is a very fine line, the stakes are very high, that is why we need very serious changes and

7:02:19 | very serious reflection today, the courts must verify the conclusions reliably and faster about wiretapping, now it happens automatically and for 8 days Ladies and Gentlemen, for

7:02:28 | 8 days a citizen can be wiretapped without the consent of the court, the citizen who was wiretapped must then have access to this information in the reports after the

7:02:39 | operational control and, above all, check whether everything was carried out in accordance with with the law, that’s why such a body should be created. An institution that

7:02:47 | will control the validity, purposefulness and effectiveness of

7:02:52 | operational controls in order to protect citizens against abuses of services and my

7:02:58 | question to the minister is whether he sees and how he sees the legitimacy of the body, or maybe it’s a problem with the spokesman or maybe in the prosecutor’s office. Thank you Thank you

7:03:07 | very much, I invite you, MP Sławomir ćwik, parliamentary club Poland 2050 TR, dear,

7:03:14 | Dear Madam Speaker, Dear Minister, Honorable Minister, Honorable Minister, Honorable Member of the House, This pogus scandal, ladies and gentlemen , shows what the PiS rule really looked like, when there was one scandal after

7:03:24 | another, how close we were to an authoritarian state,

7:03:35 | when they tried to subvert the seat of the democratic party. It ended. Constitutional crisis

7:03:41 | and the departure of the president of the PiS management board in Poland, no one was held

7:03:48 | responsible for the fact that the public prosecutor of the generals’

7:03:55 | political patrons was eavesdropped on

7:04:03 | because it was soon another scandal, Mr. Minister. I

7:04:08 | hope that all those responsible for the Pegasus scandal will bear

7:04:14 | proper responsibility so that it does not happen. it happened again in the future Thank you very much, thank you, Mr. MP, I invite you, Mr. Konrad Frysz,

7:04:22 | parliamentary club, Civic Coalition

7:04:27 | , Madam Speaker, Honorable Members of the House,

7:04:32 | the right side of the political scene has been eavesdropping for years, the politicians of the ruling parties

7:04:38 | have also been eavesdropping for years, were you not afraid that

7:04:44 | those eavesdropping on the head of the European Council are your

7:04:49 | standards according to all according to all signs your

7:04:56 | minister who had the nickname Rubber Ear infected you with this disease

7:05:04 | tell you what is happening to your competition and the strangest of all this is what is reported today The media were groups excluded from

7:05:14 | this to be able to wiretap be wiretapped with Pegasus Attention who all Sims have

7:05:20 | SIM cards registered in Russian telephone networks or

7:05:32 | Iwo is eavesdropping. But on the other hand, it agreed and accepted and bought

7:05:38 | a system for PLN 25 million that did not allow for eavesdropping on those who were sowing confusion and war in Europe even when Russia

7:05:45 | was fighting with Ukraine.

7:05:52 | thank you, MP, I invite you, MP Michał py, club, parliament, Polish

7:05:58 | people, thank you, honorable Minister , presented information on the number of people against whom a request to order an operational control or control over the recording

7:06:07 | of conversations was submitted last year

7:06:13 | – there were almost 6,000 applications, and the control was ordered for

7:06:19 | a slightly smaller number – 5835 people I would like to go further and

7:06:25 | get

7:06:30 | to know other numbers that will actually tell us about the validity of

7:06:36 | all

7:06:42 | these

7:06:47 | early, there have already been some convictions against all these people,

7:06:52 | thank you very much, thank you very much,

7:07:00 | Mr. Minister, I invite you, Mr. Minister, 2014, Prime Minister Tusk, Minister Sienkiewicz and Vice-President of the Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights Adam Bodnar

7:07:10 | Remote control system is a system that in many areas had wider applications and possibilities than Pegasus Mr. then he protested and asked

7:07:19 | how it was used by the Polish services, as reported by The Citizen

7:07:24 | Lab, then you did not get much information, now you are a minister, I wanted to ask if you have returned to it, are you able to tell us

7:07:30 | about the use of the system, the victims of the use of

7:07:36 | the management system, the system Thank you Thank you very much, I invite you to speak.

7:07:44 | Mr. Mariusz Gosek, the Law and Justice parliamentary club, will take the floor. Thank you very much, Dear Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable

7:07:54 | Member of the Chamber . Well, in response

7:08:02 | to the question: In how many member states of the European Union was the Pegasus system used? Professor Kosiński answered clearly in all of them.

7:08:10 | And in how many? There is a discussion. on the operational control system, a discussion harmful to the security of the national state, harmful in Poland,

7:08:19 | such a discussion is only taking place, the minister said so, in the era of new technologies, the temptation arises to easily use the operational control system.

7:08:26 | Yes, Mr Minister, because in a democratic state of law, the model of which is included in the constitution it cannot be that criminals using

7:08:36 | modern technology, don’t bother me, Mrs. Speaker, Mrs. Sroka, it cannot be that a criminal was one step ahead of

7:08:45 | the state authorities who should be fighting this crime, during the

7:08:51 | election campaign, pushing for a false campaign on

7:08:56 | the topic of total surveillance And what is the truth, total surveillance, I’m finishing this note, in

7:09:02 | 2021 162 people, of which operational control, as indicated by Ministers

7:09:08 | Wójcik and Ministers Wąsik and Kamiński, was used against Belarusians and

7:09:13 | Russia also in the era of the hybrid war that we had, the Russian Federation should perfectly know that it was a temporary war Thank you, Mr. MP.

7:09:24 | I invite you, Ms. Katarzyna Maria Piekarska, parliamentary club, Civic Coalition

7:09:39 | PR, Ms. MP, please, for a moment, let the gentlemen calm down. Please, Mr. Speaker. I am asking you to

7:09:45 | speak now, Mr. Truskolaski, Mr. Gosek.

7:09:52 | Mr. Piekarska will now speak. Dear Mrs. Marshal, Mr. Gentlemen

7:09:57 | , Mr. Minister, how dangerous is the evil that uses this atomic bomb

7:10:04 | when it comes to surveillance systems, not in relation to terrorists or some

7:10:10 | bandits, but in relation to the opposition, it is also very clear that in your times

7:10:17 | the Special Services have completely gotten out of control and this simply needs

7:10:23 | to be changed, but at the same time, the judges admit that the applications submitted to

7:10:31 | prosecutors do not indicate the method of surveillance. I think this, Minister, needs to be changed, as well as the fact that the judges themselves indicate that

7:10:41 | they are not properly prepared to evaluate the applications they are supposed to consider. this thread appeared

7:10:49 | in your speech and that’s why I also wanted to ask when

7:10:54 | such training for judges will start so that they can properly

7:11:00 | prepare third party liability insurance or the given material sent by

7:11:05 | the prosecutor’s office and how to evaluate it Thank you very much Thank you very much, MP, I invite you, MP Krzysztof Truskolaski, parliamentary club,

7:11:14 | Obywatelska Coalition Thank you, Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, instead of strengthening the Polish one

7:11:19 | army instead of protecting the Polish border Instead of helping victims of crimes You

7:11:25 | spent PLN 25 million on the spy system the PiS government decided that the

7:11:33 | Polish state is a private state, a private PiS state, that you can

7:11:38 | control citizens in any situation, at home, at school, at work, everywhere,

7:11:44 | you thought you could do anything

7:11:51 | what was your fault ,

7:11:58 | MP Magdalena Łose, for

7:12:03 | tapping her phone? what was your fault, MP Jacek Karnowski, for

7:12:08 | listening to him and surveilling his e-mail

7:12:15 | SMS ? our movement, you wanted to know everything.

7:12:21 | Thank you very much, Mr. MP, I invite you to speak.

7:12:31 | Dear Minister, High House, according to the information provided by

7:12:37 | the Prosecutor General, operational control in the form of a pegasus was ordered for almost 6,000 people in our country and there is no

7:12:46 | doubt that the current authorities should investigate on what basis were consents issued

7:12:52 | at that time, the previous government had no qualms about establishing

7:12:57 | operational control over people against whom there had never been any criminal prosecution or against people who

7:13:03 | were politically inconvenient or should be destroyed. I know this well because in 1990

7:13:10 | I had such control under the Pegasus system myself, just because that at

7:13:15 | that time I was a councilor of the Civic Platform Dear Mr. Prosecutor, does the prosecutor’s office examine the advisability and validity of applications for

7:13:23 | ordering operational control, because it is clear that Pegazus was illegal,

7:13:29 | I would like to know whether the power has it today Thank you very much Thank you very much, MP, and as

7:13:41 | I promised I invite Mr. Jarosław Saaj to make a correction. Please take a minute, Marshal, Mr.

7:13:48 | Minister. The Honorable House, the Chairwoman of the Pegasus Committee, the so-called committee, has incorrectly understood my CA

7:13:59 | statement to the Minister about revealing all the things that are in his possession in order to end

7:14:09 | the quarrels between Poles and the mistreatment of some people. on the other hand, I appealed for the disclosure of these

7:14:15 | functionalities because these functionalities are critical at the moment, so that we know what pazus could actually do, what he could not do, because a few months

7:14:24 | ago the press wrote what it wrote, what I said in my speech, it

7:14:31 | does not completely cover what functionalities all functionalities, this software has it for 5 months now, almost Mr. Minister, when did you have

7:14:40 | the opportunity to end this quarreling and quarreling between Poles, so again, Mr. Minister,

7:14:49 | I am appealing for information today.

7:14:56 | Thank you, we have exhausted the list of MPs.

7:15:02 | You asked for a vote from the Prosecutor General, Minister Adam Bod. I invite you, Mr.

7:15:18 | Minister, Dear Marshal. Honorable Members,

7:15:24 | I would like to express my gratitude for today’s debate, for the questions, for the

7:15:29 | critical remarks, for the reflections, and I think it is

7:15:34 | quite symbolic for me that I am speaking right after the MP who

7:15:39 | was a victim of surveillance and who asks, in my opinion,

7:15:45 | in this dramatic tone, the question of what is happening to her data? I think it was very important what the MP said about

7:15:54 | the date 2019. Who knew in 2019 that there was a Pegas

7:16:01 | ? No one knew. Robert Zieliński from TVN24 wrote the first reports. So how

7:16:07 | could the judges then know that by signing the consent they were agreeing? that the services absolutely access

7:16:16 | the phone and can view private photos and instant messages and files and

7:16:22 | everything that is in this phone. Well, the judges actually started to be aware of how deeply this system was interfering with

7:16:31 | the year 2000, maybe somewhere around 20 21 21 I would like us to remember this because now it is so easy

7:16:40 | to talk about all this, but I think that there was simply no awareness in society of how deeply interfered with this system is,

7:16:49 | we started to find out about it only when the Citizen Lab he started revealing individual people where, when it was possible, individual

7:16:58 | people he suspected could check whether their phone was infected by this loophole that was revealed somewhere in

7:17:07 | phone software and First it was done by Citizen and later by Amnesty International I think we should remember these facts in

7:17:14 | the context of this debate because now we are simply richer in knowledge, but

7:17:20 | the fact that we have such knowledge should not be assessed through the prism of current knowledge and attitudes of actions or behaviors that could have taken place since

7:17:29 | 2017 201 is the first thing I wanted

7:17:34 | to say the second thing in this debate appeared This debate was very interesting because on the one hand it was about settling accounts with the past and

7:17:44 | also about looking into the future how to repair the system of functioning of our state and at the same time, this look

7:17:54 | into the future, this is a look at how to account for what has happened and, Madam MP, to your example, I hope that as

7:18:03 | a result of this prosecutorial work, you will not only gain knowledge of what is happening with your data, although this does not guarantee Madam, what happened in the services of foreign

7:18:13 | countries that could have obtained this data, we don’t have it, we probably won’t even be able to determine who copied it where and on what servers it is floating

7:18:22 | around the world. However, I think that one day the Polish state will apologize to you for what happened also that the entire proceedings will be carried out and it

7:18:30 | will be possible to say authoritatively Yes, the powers have been exceeded,

7:18:35 | the Polish state apologizes to

7:18:44 | Mrs.

7:18:49 | the right to privacy And since we pay attention to the right to privacy, we cannot, as a government or as, and even more so

7:18:58 | as the prosecutor general, simply take the list and say Oh please, here is the list, here is the list, dear, public opinion, journalists, rejoice

7:19:06 | and now check who, where, how and why, because first of all, we would lead to the disclosure of data that could be used by

7:19:16 | foreign intelligence agencies, because even if the software was defective,

7:19:21 | it was still used, yes, I assume that in some situations it could have been the case that it was used for a good purpose there was someone suspected of espionage activities

7:19:29 | something was used, it was true, we should probably not inform this person about it now Hello, you were a victim of Pegasus, yes, because

7:19:39 | that is not what it is about, yes, we also have to take care, we have to balance various interests, private interest with public interest, and what’s more, if even a certain person was

7:19:48 | a victim for various reasons. Maybe she doesn’t want all the WZ to tell about her, so she has to find out herself and that’s why it’s not about

7:19:57 | the prosecutor’s office wanting to keep something for itself, but rather we want to inform

7:20:02 | those people who to whom we are convinced that the law of abuse has been instrumentalized, secondly, we want to give them a chance to

7:20:11 | decide whether they want to talk more about it, to have their cases

7:20:16 | discussed, a very important issue is What to do with the secret services in the future, here it is quite I would

7:20:24 | even say that it is interesting and intriguing because the members of the Confederation postulated

7:20:29 | the adoption of the Penal Code for operational work and with the argument that allegedly nothing is happening.

7:20:35 | Nobody is working on it. And Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to read to you

7:20:41 | a note prepared by my colleague, Dr. Marcin Mrowicka, from the meeting that took place on April 15 in the Supreme Audit Office

7:20:49 | , which was devoted to the model of supervision over the secret services and I would like to read the note very briefly it reads like this Krzysztof Bondaruk from

7:20:59 | the Ministry of Internal Affairs presented the assumptions of the draft act the operational labor code is intended to distinguish operational work from operational and reconnaissance activities

7:21:08 | it is to organize the work of the police it is to use uniform nomenclature and a covert interference such as Pegasus will be considered a new operational method,

7:21:16 | because statutory regulation is necessary instead of the current instructions, competence centers will be created with leading units of the Internal Security Agency, and so on and

7:21:23 | so on, there will be a precise division between the Secret Services and the police, there will be a categorization of operational work methods, the operational work faces will be

7:21:32 | also defined principles of operation of officers, including the principle of legalism, objectivity, secrecy, efficiency, proportionality, economics

7:21:40 | of planning, he also pointed to 26 methods of operational work that will be defined, guarantees of Civil Rights will be provided, such as,

7:21:48 | firstly, court consent for all operational activities, secondly, dispersed judicial control of 11 district courts in 11 various appeals,

7:21:57 | thirdly, the court will decide at a meeting at which the prosecutor and a representative of the services are to be present, the proceedings will not be conducted

7:22:04 | by correspondence The court will issue a written justification in each case refusal Consent the requirement to inform the expos That is, when the surveillance ends and these materials

7:22:13 | have not led to anything, the person who was subjected to it should be informed, for example, at a distance, for example a year or 5 years after,

7:22:22 | the role of the parliamentary committee should be strengthened, extension of the tasks of the college to cover special services, individual ad hoc parliamentary control

7:22:30 | by members of the parliamentary committee for secret services, new regulations of the committee for secret services, change of the rules of procedure of the Sejm,

7:22:39 | repeal of the provisions on the fruits of the poisonous tree and, finally, Article 237a of the Code of Criminal Procedure, the court

7:22:46 | gives consent only if the offense is included in the catalog of offenses in relation to which operational control may be carried out and

7:22:53 | operational control departments are to be established in district courts. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the position the government maybe not the government yes the position of one of

7:23:02 | the government representatives, a person who knows the subject, I think it coincides with many of my

7:23:07 | views on it, the government is simply working on the operational labor code which is to touch upon the issue of both the regulation of operational and reconnaissance activities

7:23:15 | as well as the supervision of this is something that is being worked on, in my opinion,

7:23:20 | what the public debate requires is determination, because here, in my

7:23:26 | opinion, we do not yet have a unified position, are we heading in the same direction as the operational labor code postulates here, are we heading towards strengthening

7:23:35 | the Sejm committee for special services, courts, college for the services

7:23:42 | of the prosecutor’s office and perhaps also the Ombudsman, because the Ombudsman has certain control capabilities in this respect, or

7:23:50 | are we heading towards establishing a separate supervisory body, because it is easy to say a new supervisory body, but the question arises whether it will be

7:23:57 | effective enough and how long it will take us to build such a body body so that it starts working well and well in this project. Thank you very much for

7:24:07 | mentioning the Pegasus project, I was in favor of creating this separate supervisory body because I think it may be important from the point of view

7:24:15 | of this individual relationship, i.e. the natural person who suspects who becomes become a victim who is this, I don’t know, a journalist who suspects something,

7:24:23 | a politician, so that she can turn herself in and and this supervisory body consisting of, for

7:24:28 | example, I don’t know, judges, with several people with the status of retired judges, to

7:24:34 | carry out appropriate explanatory proceedings, but we have to do all this, I think it is simply D That’s what this debate is for, among other things, to

7:24:42 | clarify it. Another issue regarding the courts. Mrs. Piekarska asked about training. I think that this should be one

7:24:52 | of the tasks for the National School of Judiciary and Public Prosecution to conduct this training because this competence is mainly in the district court in Warsaw and

7:25:01 | worse locally. And here again, returning to the topic of the court, one of the reasons for this is that preparatory proceedings are conducted and this

7:25:10 | investigative team works to explain how it all worked in practice. Because if I am aware that 50% more judges in the District Court in Warsaw,

7:25:20 | the Criminal Division, these are judges appointed by the National Council of the Judiciary after 2018,

7:25:25 | if we can, there is also awareness that the judge who appoints

7:25:32 | the duties is also a judge appointed after 2018. So the question arises whether perhaps

7:25:37 | such situations have not occurred that the services knew exactly when

7:25:43 | to submit the application and who was to issue such a decision – it was not

7:25:49 | decided in these proceedings and this is why the proceedings will be carried out Please note that ladies and gentlemen, they say that a big cloud is a little rain, but I really think that

7:26:01 | 578 people are a little rain, 578 specific people, including those present in the room,

7:26:08 | a few of those people who were checked, you can tell everything about their private life that could be found on the phone cellular This is a little rain,

7:26:17 | this is every one, this individual case is simply

7:26:23 | something in itself that should not happen in a democratic state that the instrumental

7:26:28 | is so Extremely strong yes A profound procedure to

7:26:34 | achieve purely political goals Well, because I really am not all the time able to understand the purpose of Mrs. Łoś or Mr. Giertych or Mr. Karnowski

7:26:45 | then Mr. President Mr. Brejza and so on were the subject of this type of

7:26:52 | study, this is an issue that absolutely strikes at the very heart of democracy because it changes the rules of the game Because those who have access to knowledge

7:27:01 | they are able to anticipate the movements of their opponents they are able to intimidate them they are able to conduct a campaign of hatred towards them they are able to use knowledge

7:27:11 | in various ways This is something that shouldn’t happen it’s just something that shouldn’t happen and now Answering because here, the MP alleged that

7:27:20 | months are passing, nothing is happening, the investigative team is working very intensively, I am downloading the case files one by one, examining it all from

7:27:30 | both an individual and general perspective. I think that what will be examined is also this issue of transferring data in terms of perhaps

7:27:40 | allegations from Article 130 of the Penal Code because this is not a circumstance that, in other words,

7:27:46 | not even if we cannot treat the case only in terms of Article 231, i.e. abuse of power, but we have to look at it more broadly if

7:27:54 | such situations could occur in which someone else in other countries found out whether introduce the services of other countries, he found out about various

7:28:02 | circumstances of our political life, this is also a circumstance that must be investigated. I am not making a definitive statement, but ladies and gentlemen,

7:28:10 | I think that this is a matter of such a scale that we will not have

7:28:16 | fireworks here within two or three months because this requires very meticulous work, first of all, verification of each subsequent person in

7:28:24 | terms of whether these abuses had occurred. And I was talking about these three verification criteria, i.e. whether the data presented

7:28:33 | by the representatives of the services were reliable to justify the initiation of operational control, whether this measure was proportional to goals

7:28:42 | that were assumed and, thirdly, whether it was adequate, whether this measure was suitable or perhaps even with the help of billings it would be possible to achieve the same

7:28:51 | goal, so this investigation will continue and will be implemented and

7:28:58 | I think that, ladies and gentlemen, I think, Your Honor, that this is such an important topic from

7:29:05 | the point of view of building a future democratic, well-functioning Poland that we have to reach for various examples of various abuses from many years. I

7:29:14 | am aware that these abuses also existed, I also dealt with them as an ombudsman, they were dealt with by non-governmental organizations such

7:29:23 | as Mr. optykon, which is probably the most important organization that deals with this topic consistently and we are responsible for ensuring that

7:29:34 | such situations never occur. This situation is extreme, it influenced

7:29:40 | the political process in my opinion, but it also showed how deep it can reach. Perhaps it is this one and only moment that we have now in history to

7:29:48 | fix everything properly and make the services

7:29:56 | work well, but by good action. I also understand this because I think that we should also be

7:30:04 | state-owned spies operating in Poland who use new

7:30:09 | technologies, the services should also have tools But if they decide to use deeply interfering tools, they must be subject to strict control so

7:30:17 | that no one has any doubts that the services use them as a last resort. Thank you very much for your attention. I will answer the remaining questions. I will

7:30:27 | answer them as the Prosecutor General in writing. Thank you very much. Minister

7:30:33 | , the proceedings are watched by young people from the second secondary school in Oleśnica named after Father Jan Twardowski

7:30:42 | You came at the invitation of Mr. Arkadiusz Sikora from the left. I greet you very much. I wish you very pleasant memories of visiting

7:30:53 | the Sejm of the Republic of Poland and I hope that you will come back here. It is possible that you will sit in this chamber once again.

7:31:04 | Best regards, I close the discussion. The Speaker of the Sejm proposes that the Sejm accept the prosecutor’s information. General of the Republic of Poland about the total

7:31:12 | number of persons against whom a request to order an inspection and disclosure of conversations was submitted or a request to order an operational audit in

7:31:20 | 2023, included in form number 308, for information If I hear no objection,

7:31:28 | I will consider the proposal, I have accepted the proposal, I do not

7:31:35 | hear any objection, Ladies and Gentlemen, we are starting to consider point five and six

7:31:40 | of the agenda, first reading of the parliamentary draft act on the

7:31:46 | Constitutional Tribunal, form 253, first reading of the parliamentary draft act, provisions introducing the act on the Constitutional Tribunal, form

7:31:57 | 254, I am asking the MP to

7:32:05 | present the draft, Mrs Kamila Gasiuk Pichowicz, Parliamentary Club, Speaker, Madam Speaker,

7:32:15 | High Chamber, I have the honor to present High House, a bill

7:32:20 | on one of the most important issues of our democracy – the rule of law – a Tribunal

7:32:30 | about a true Constitutional Tribunal, i.e. one that decides on our

7:32:35 | rights and obligations, about the limits of power, about equality and justice, about a Tribunal

7:32:41 | that will be the guardian of the Constitution, a guarantor of its observance, and

7:32:46 | an arbiter in matters relating to compliance laws with our fundamental principles and, above all, a tribunal that will actually protect

7:32:56 | the freedoms and rights of the individual and not the interests of another party, a Tribunal

7:33:02 | composed of legal authorities, people with an impeccable reputation, outstanding

7:33:07 | lawyers and not political minions, the commitment of the coalition on October 15

7:33:13 | was to repair the Constitutional Tribunal and this is the result will of 12

7:33:18 | million citizens, this is the fruit of the work of lawyers specialists in the field of

7:33:24 | constitutional law, human rights law, and PR organizations and associations

7:33:30 | involved in the defense of the rule of law. In particular, I would like to thank the Batory Foundation

7:33:35 | and its experts, Professor Paty and Dr. Zalasiński. The project is supported by dozens of non-governmental organizations. It underwent

7:33:44 | expert consultations during three scientific conferences Even before

7:33:49 | it came into our hands, and today we are proud and honored to be transmitters of the will

7:33:54 | of citizens and a group of constitutional law experts, unlike the applicable Acts on the Constitutional Tribunal. This project was not created

7:34:03 | on our knees and will not be passed expressly at night or in violation of the democratic principles of law-making and the rules of proper legislation, we promise

7:34:13 | to work on this project reliably with a sense of responsibility for the

7:34:18 | Constitutional order in Poland. On Friday, as the chairwoman of the Justice and Human Rights Committee, I will have the honor to submit a request for a public hearing

7:34:28 | on these projects at a specially convened committee. For this purpose, the democratic majority committee does not need to be convinced that this is an important project, a project

7:34:39 | that restores confidence in one of the most important constitutional bodies,

7:34:44 | we want to ensure that the tribunal is truly independent, competent and effective, we want to ensure that its composition is

7:34:53 | selected in a transparent manner, respecting democratic principles and the rule of law, but above all, a strong and credible institution which

7:35:03 | will ensure compliance with constitutional principles and rights, it is not worth talking today about how Ms. Przyłębska’s tribunal functions. In

7:35:12 | recent years, we have really seen an unprecedented degradation of the authority of the tribunal, which became the third Chamber of Parliament, and its actions referred

7:35:22 | to the dark times of the Polish People’s Republic, in which the legalization of lawlessness was the council

7:35:27 | of state, which was formally supposed to protect the constitution, was formed in September last year 46 percent of Poles negatively assessed the activities of the Przyłębska tribunal

7:35:36 | as good only 24 percent not even all voters of Law and Justice

7:35:42 | accept what happened to this institution And now what exactly will it be like?

7:35:48 | the repair of the tribunal looked like First of all, let’s start with the understudies, they will not be able to adjudicate and could never give way to correctly elected judges

7:35:57 | of the tribunal, the end of the tribunal, secondly, we will choose a staggered selection of the members of the Tribunal, five will be elected for 3 years, and

7:36:06 | for 9 years, this is a safeguard against this. so that one parliamentary majority does not monopolize a similar similar goal to

7:36:16 | ensure full representation This is the election of judges by a qualified majority 35 a candidate for a judge should enjoy the trust of a larger

7:36:26 | parliamentary majority than the simple majority, they also want to close the path to the Tribunal for active politicians,

7:36:33 | hence the four-year grace period proposed in the project for candidates who they sat in the parliament or in the bodies

7:36:41 | of the executive power, MP Pawłowicz Piotrowicz will no longer be able to move from the

7:36:46 | parliamentary bench to the Tribunal, let the Constitutional Tribunal be what it should be, the Polish Constitutional Tribunal, and not a place for

7:36:55 | social discoveries, I am taking the Tribunal from the party of power from the former party of power, and we are giving it back

7:37:02 | to the citizens, we are taking back the Tribunal politicians, but we give it to the Constitution,

7:37:09 | thank you, thank you, Mrs. MP, for presenting the justification for the bill contained in document 253. I will ask Mr. Sławomir Ćwik, Mrs.

7:37:19 | Marshal, High Chamber of applicants. I have the honor to present the parliamentary draft bill on the Constitutional Tribunal. The institution of

7:37:27 | the constitutional tribunal is a kind of fuse of a democratic state protecting citizens against the attempts of the authorities to create

7:37:38 | a law that violates the constitutional rights of Polish women and men. Unfortunately, for some

7:37:43 | time we have been observing that the current composition of the tribunal and the mode of its work do not fulfill this role – it includes so-called double judges and active

7:37:53 | politicians – the tribunal has ceased to be an independent institution that cares for the interests of Poland and its citizens and has become has become an instrument of political struggle of one

7:38:02 | party and its leader, the most recent and most striking example of this

7:38:07 | is the issuance of a decision protecting Mr. Adam Glapinski, the president of the National Bank of Poland, and

7:38:12 | privately a friend of MP Kaczyński, from liability before the state tribunal. the first mistake in the functioning of the tribunal

7:38:20 | by appointing excess judges was actually committed by the majority sitting in the Sejm 1st term of office on October 8, 201, this error was

7:38:31 | immediately corrected by the Constitutional Tribunal itself by issuing a judgment of December 3, 2015 in the case k34 na1, which confirmed

7:38:41 | the correct appointment on October 8, 2015 by the Sejm of the 6th term of office

7:38:47 | of three new judges and the incorrect appointment of two more. However, the majority The Sejm of the 6-term Sejm did not wait for this decision, on

7:38:55 | November 25, 2015, it adopted a resolution declaring the lack of legal force

7:39:01 | of all five resolutions on the election of judges of the Constitutional Tribunal of October 8, and with subsequent resolutions it elected another five judges instead of

7:39:09 | two, which it had the right to do, and this began the process of the collapse of the Tribunal The greatest contributor to

7:39:15 | the deepening of the crisis was President Andrzej Duda who refused to take the oath from three judges duly

7:39:23 | appointed by the Sejm of the seventh term and took it from three judges illegally appointed in their places, the so-called double judges, then the

7:39:33 | crisis only deepened due to taking oaths from another two double judges, and also as a result of Mr. President appointing

7:39:40 | Mrs. Julia Przyłębska as the president of the Constitutional Tribunal despite the fact that the General Assembly of judges of the

7:39:49 | Constitutional Tribunal did not present her candidacy, which is expressly required by Article 194, paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland, as well as performing this function after December 20

7:40:00 | 202 Despite the expiry of the six-year term, in view of the fact that in the matter in

7:40:05 | question it is possible to find mistakes and faults of various political camps, although undoubtedly the camp of the so-called united right contributed most to the crisis,

7:40:13 | we are even more obliged today to find solutions as soon as possible that would avert this crisis. and we should

7:40:22 | work on this problem. We must join the entire Sejm together repairing the institution of the Constitutional Tribunal as an institution

7:40:30 | defined in our Constitution and extremely important for the proper functioning of the state, as proof that the will of the project’s creators is to jointly

7:40:38 | repair the institution of the tribunal, the bill provides that the judges of the Constitutional Tribunal will be elected by a majority of 35 from among

7:40:47 | the candidates who can nominate various circles the main goals of the new Act on the Constitutional Tribunal are that, according to the project,

7:41:00 | the CN will be required a grace period for being a member of a political party or sitting in Parliament We propose that all political forces

7:41:09 | get involved in repairing the institution of the Constitutional Tribunal because today this institution does not fulfill its function as above. I even indicated the president

7:41:17 | the tribunal was not established properly during the debate on the report on problems with the functioning of the tribunal during the question session, I asked

7:41:26 | about the resolution of the general meeting regarding presenting

7:41:32 | a candidate for president of the tribunal to the president and I asked for a written response presenting the same resolution, to date I have not received a reply – a copy of

7:41:40 | this resolution which justifies the statement that this resolution simply does not exist in order

7:41:46 | to ensure the fullest possible participation of all parties in the proceedings of the draft law concerning an institution so important for democracy. The

7:41:54 | Constitutional Tribunal than to hold a hearing

7:41:59 | and present positions that may be of significant importance for the draft bill. The High Chamber submitted the draft bill on the Constitutional Tribunal. it is also

7:42:08 | pro-citizen because it provides for the expansion of the circle of entities with the possibility of bringing cases to the Constitutional Tribunal by citizens and

7:42:16 | social organizations on behalf of the applicants. I am asking for the submitted draft act on the Constitutional Tribunal to be directed to further

7:42:24 | work in committees so that the renewed Constitutional Tribunal will serve people and defense,

7:42:29 | and not politicians to serve to settle your political interests, please take the floor, Mr. Michał Pyżyk, justification of the

7:42:38 | bill contained in document 253. Thank you very much, Dear Speaker, Honorable Chamber, in March this year, together with a group of MPs,

7:42:48 | we signed the draft bill on the Constitutional Tribunal, it is a very clear and

7:42:54 | specific answer to everything that has happened in Poland with the Constitutional Tribunal, of course around it, in recent years, and

7:43:03 | numerous normative, functional and organizational problems have appeared, affecting both

7:43:09 | the quality of the jurisprudence of the Constitutional Tribunal as well as the reliability and efficiency of its functioning. The Constitutional Tribunal has lost the ability to

7:43:18 | apolitically consider the issues pending constitutional disputes before him, while implementing

7:43:23 | political directives, he lost sight of the constitution of the Republic of Poland and the principles and norms resulting from it, which should absolutely be

7:43:33 | guided by it, a serious constitutional crisis occurred related to the incorrect selection of judges of the Tribunal and the defective appointment of its president who, as

7:43:42 | we have heard, was sworn in by Mr. President without the required resolutions of the general assembly of judges of the Tribunal, this state of affairs led to a significant

7:43:51 | decline in the quality of judgments and also to the organizational destabilization of the tribunal, the number of judgments issued was successively reduced in 2020, the

7:44:01 | Constitutional Tribunal issued only 14 judgments, as a reminder, earlier, because in the years

7:44:07 | 2008-2015 the tribunal worked and issued an average of 71 judgments per year Due to this

7:44:13 | slowdown or even stopping

7:44:19 | of adjudication

7:44:26 | , planning of young adjudicators, the result was the accumulation of problems and the increasing length of the considered cases.

7:44:35 | Unfortunately, public trust in the Tribunal has also decreased, which was visible in a significant decrease in the number of constitutional complaints, legal questions and

7:44:44 | applications submitted to the Constitutional Tribunal, a bill eliminating all these irregularities is as I mentioned at

7:44:52 | the beginning, a clear, specific response to all these negative actions in recent years and I hope that

7:45:03 | dard Thank you very much, I invite MP Katarzyna uan to present the justification for the act in print

7:45:21 | 253 Dear Speaker of the House,

7:45:29 | Minister, April 24, 2024 is another important date, important

7:45:38 | for the coalition, October 15, but important for Poland, for all of us, it is a milestone

7:45:46 | in restoring the rule of law, in restoring the sense of security in the process of healing the Constitutional Tribunal, which

7:45:55 | we started in this chamber with the adoption of resolutions the Constitutional crises of 2015 and 2023 in the context of the activities of the

7:46:05 | Constitutional Tribunal, today in this Chamber, we present to you two drafts:

7:46:11 | a draft act on the Constitutional Tribunal from form no. 253 and

7:46:17 | a parliamentary draft bill – provisions introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal from form no. 254 – proposed changes, including those

7:46:27 | provisions introduced in Parliamentary form No. 254 is the result of the work and consultations

7:46:33 | carried out in recent years by a number of lawyers specialists in the field of constitutional law, theory and philosophy of law, international law,

7:46:42 | civil law, human rights, and the organization of law associations involved in the defense of the rule of law. The idea of creating this project was born

7:46:52 | at a scientific conference entitled How to restore the rule of law organized by the already mentioned forum of ideas of the Stefan Batory Foundation.

7:47:00 | Since then, the foundation’s team of legal experts has led and

7:47:07 | coordinated work on the creation of a new act on the Constitutional Tribunal. In

7:47:12 | its final form, the project has received the support of 48 social organizations, including associations of Polish judges and justice associations. judges

7:47:21 | temi association of prosecutors le super Omnia foundation free courts of action democracy Civic Network Watchdog full list of support can be found in

7:47:30 | the justification of this project Ladies and Gentlemen, in the current composition of

7:47:35 | the Constitutional Tribunal we all know, I will repeat what we all know, we have known for

7:47:40 | years that people who are not authorized to judge are not authorized because their

7:47:46 | election was made in violation of the provisions of the Constitution of the Republic of

7:47:52 | Poland and this is supported by the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal and

7:48:03 | the judgments of the European Court of Human

7:48:12 | Rights . legal provisions specified in Article 190(1)(TR) of the Constitution,

7:48:23 | which is also confirmed by the decision of the Supreme Court of September 16, 2021, the state

7:48:29 | of political chaos caused by the introduced spot regulations was intensified by the unconstitutional appointment of the president and

7:48:38 | vice-president of the tribunal Ladies and Gentlemen, today with these regulations we are restoring

7:48:43 | the rule of law, we are finally restoring the sense of security and

7:48:50 | predictability of law is an important step for the coalition of October 15 But above

7:48:57 | all, millions of Polish people Thanks to the changes, we can recreate the system of law control in

7:49:07 | accordance with the constitution, we will restore the independence of the tribunal to the constitutional tribunal, we are creating new strong mechanisms that

7:49:16 | will protect the tribunal against usurpation by those in power now and in the future,

7:49:21 | thank you, thank you, p take b

7:49:30 | Proj zawar in print 254 Mrs. Marshal Your Honor, Mr. Minister, I have the pleasure of presenting,

7:49:41 | of course, very briefly, the draft bill introducing this first

7:49:49 | act, in the sense of course, they constitute a complete set, but I will say right away that it is

7:49:54 | more complicated, more deposits that have a nuanced nature, it is also

7:50:02 | easier for such critical interpretations but it is necessary it is necessary in order to be able to introduce this first law, the purpose

7:50:12 | of the bill, as we know, is to eliminate the state of dysfunctionality of the constitutional control system of the law, this is the main task, the challenge,

7:50:21 | but how to do it is presented in this first draft, what it should look like is presented in this first one introduce the bill, looking at the situation

7:50:32 | we have today, it is the task of this second bill, as I said, it is much more complex, much more complicated, it contains various nuances

7:50:41 | that are subject to various interpretations, including the critical bill

7:50:48 | this introductory note is primarily intended to determine the date

7:50:54 | of entry into force of the proposed act, it is the simplest, it regulates the transitional and adjustment provisions to this act, this is Article 7 and Article

7:51:03 | 15, it is also not very complicated, then we have the effects that are

7:51:09 | crucial for the project repeal of previous legal solutions

7:51:14 | on this topic and then, of course, also provides for changes in

7:51:19 | the applicable provisions as a systemic consequence of the adoption of the proposed Act on the Constitutional Tribunal And here we have

7:51:29 | which are extensive, very complex, complicated,

7:51:34 | as I said, not easy when it comes to what particular attention should be paid to this is primarily due to these transitional provisions which not

7:51:43 | only adapt the draft act but according to which the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal issued in the

7:51:48 | adjudicating panel in which a person appointed to the position of a judge sat in violation of the act and the judgments also those issued in December

7:51:59 | and, I would also add, also the persons appointed to the position of a judge place because it results in the

7:52:07 | presumption of invalidity and does not produce the effects specified in Article 190, paragraph

7:52:14 | 1 and paragraph TR of the Constitution, this is a very important, key thing and, as

7:52:21 | I said, the most difficult thing, the drafter will immediately add that it does not extend all the effects of the invalidity of

7:52:30 | the Constitutional Tribunal’s judgments to the sphere of application of the law. including, among others, Article 7, paragraph

7:52:35 | C of the draft act, a very important reservation is introduced there that

7:52:41 | final court decisions, all those administrative decisions that are final

7:52:47 | upon the entry into force of the draft act, issued in individual cases on the basis of the legal status established by such a judgment, remain in force

7:52:57 | by analogy, the draft act is classified decisions of the Constitutional Tribunal issued in matters relating to competence disputes, which I would like to draw attention to, is mentioned in Article 7,

7:53:07 | paragraph two of this draft, and it is stated there that decisions on the resolution of competence disputes between central institutions

7:53:15 | and state bodies issued by an adjudicating panel in which a person appointed to the position sat violation of the Constitutional Tribunal Act and also the persons appointed in its

7:53:25 | place are invalid and not This distinction is extremely important and

7:53:31 | that is what I wanted to draw your attention to, I do not want to introduce all the nuances because there are a lot of them, but I will add one more element

7:53:41 | because the drafters, i.e. the applicants, treat the provisions differently Constitutional Tribunal

7:53:48 | those issued on so-called formal issues that were decided by an incorrect adjudicating panel within the meaning adopted in

7:53:57 | the draft act. I would like to remind you that in the meaning of article, paragraph 1 of the draft act,

7:54:03 | decisions issued at a closed session to discontinue the proceedings as a result of, for example, the withdrawal of an application. A constitutional complaint also include questions legal

7:54:13 | if the issued ruling is inadmissible or unnecessary, if the challenged normative norm has lost its binding force before the ruling is issued,

7:54:23 | or in the event of, for example, the end of the term of office of the Sejm or the Senate and the application

7:54:29 | of a group of deputies or senators being covered by the principle of discontinuation of the work of the Parliament remain in force as far as

7:54:38 | other decisions are concerned, I will list them as listed in the Act, this justification

7:54:43 | also includes these organizational and technical provisions, which include, among others, intertemporal decisions

7:54:52 | regarding disciplinary acts of Constitutional Tribunal judges and disciplinary acts, designation

7:54:58 | of the Constitutional Tribunal judge with the longest seniority as performing the duties of the president,

7:55:04 | initiating the procedure for electing the president and Vice-President of the Constitutional Tribunal liquidation of the Constitutional Tribunal’s office,

7:55:10 | Office of the Legal Service and others consistently concerning

7:55:16 | technical matters but crucially important from the point of view In short, the application of law, I know that the remaining representatives of the applicants will present other elements

7:55:26 | constituting this project, transition In short, to further

7:55:32 | work on this project as an element necessary for the introduction of this first

7:55:37 | act, which

7:55:46 | a presentation of the justification for the draft act contained in document

7:55:51 | 254 of the Honorable Minister of Justice,

7:55:57 | the Constitutional Res is needed, we all know, and it has already been said today. We also know from this podium that this is one of the elements of broad

7:56:07 | changes to the Constitutional Tribunal and the project together with the other

7:56:14 | proceedings. The dramatic Constitutional crisis that occurred in the years 2015-2023, we determine that

7:56:25 | the Tribunal’s understudies cannot prosecute judges whose

7:56:30 | public activities violate all standards of independence. This has been said in truth, but I will emphasize it once again that the draft amendment to the Act itself whether the new

7:56:41 | functional regulation does not function without introductory provisions, which are in fact probably even more important than those from

7:56:50 | the previous print, then these provisions are intended to eliminate the effects of bad

7:56:56 | decisions of the rule of Law and Justice in legal transactions, the introductory provisions assume the annulment of judgments involving double judges among

7:57:03 | others, Mrs. Pawłowicz, among others, Mr. Pietrowicz, i.e. de facto active politicians who transferred the award to the Equestrian Tribunal in order to guard

7:57:12 | the interests of the party according to the project by a person authorized to adjudicate we mean

7:57:17 | a person who was appointed as one hundred judge in violation of the Act but also the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal with reference number k341 3515 and

7:57:28 | also their successors who replace them when their mandate

7:57:35 | expires, the project assumes that the judgments of the Equestrian Tribunal issued with the participation of these people are invalid and do not affect their legal effects, and in the same way the project qualifies

7:57:43 | the decisions of the tribunal issued in cases concerning competence disputes, it is slightly different in the case of individual situations because

7:57:50 | the project refers we also address constitutional complaints and legal questions in such a way that the invalidity of the tribunal’s judgment does not have consequences for the validity of

7:57:58 | individual cases decided, we want citizens not to suffer the consequences of

7:58:04 | bad decisions made by Law and Justice politicians in individual cases, and provisions worth emphasizing can also be found in the project.

7:58:11 | regarding the re-election of the President of the Constitutional Tribunal and the draft provides that from the date of entry into force of the Act, the duties of the President of the

7:58:19 | Constitutional Tribunal shall be performed by the judge with the longest seniority in the Constitutional Tribunal, which is important for proceedings before the Tribunal not completed before

7:58:29 | the date of entry into force of this Act, if it is signed by the President, it shall apply the existing provisions will apply, while the provisions of the new Act on the Constitutional Tribunal will apply to proceedings before the Tribunal of

7:58:37 | Szczęch and not completed before the date of entry into force of the previous Act, in which the adjudicating panel included a person who was not authorized to adjudicate, i.e.

7:58:44 | a double judge, the provisions of the new Act on the Constitutional Tribunal will also apply, it will be necessary to repeat actions, and these will be procedural actions performed In

7:58:53 | the proceedings in which an unauthorized person took part, these introductory provisions are necessary for this new zafon system, of course, we want

7:59:01 | to talk about these provisions, and parliamentary work will be used for this purpose, and here I will address this large group of Law and Justice politicians, four of them in

7:59:09 | this plenary hall. Basically, three of you, take advantage of this opportunity and correct your mistakes from the years of your rule. Many of you MPs from Law and

7:59:18 | Justice would certainly like to return to those good times when the Constitutional Tribunal guarded the Constitution and not the interests of

7:59:26 | the party. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP, I would like to greet

7:59:32 | the group of students. from class 8a from the first public primary school in Gdynia,

7:59:37 | together with their guardians, Mrs. Anna Gulgowski, Mr. Waldemar Stopczyński,

7:59:45 | who came to us today at the invitation of Minister Agnieszka Buczyńska.

7:59:53 | Best regards, you are welcome

8:00:00 | to print no

8:00:05 | . 254. Dear Speaker, Honorable Members, draft bill from print

8:00:12 | no. 254 that is, the parliamentary bill regarding the provisions introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal, an extremely necessary project, as

8:00:20 | we are discussing here today, these two projects are projects that are intended to organize

8:00:28 | the functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal which, in the opinion of most

8:00:34 | lawyers, actually functioned only in the political interest and resolved only these

8:00:40 | issues and those problems that were in the interest of the ruling camp, and this

8:00:46 | was in fact the key to the problem that we must solve in the project containing provisions introducing the planned reform, was defined and written down

8:00:54 | even that the statutory changes were to come into force after 30 days from the date of promulgation of the act, it was introduced that the judgments

8:01:02 | of the Constitutional Tribunal issued in recent years in a panel composed of persons not authorized to adjudicate are invalid and do not have legal effects, it was stated in the draft that

8:01:10 | all procedural acts performed in proceedings before the Constitutional Tribunal with the participation of unauthorized persons require reconsideration,

8:01:17 | the project also provides for exceptions regarding judgments issued after constitutional complaints or legal questions that constituted

8:01:25 | the basis for resuming the proceedings or issuing a judgment because a decision in an individual case will be a structure that will also constitute a guarantee of acquired rights

8:01:35 | and cases pending every results from the principle of a democratic state of law

8:01:41 | from the principle of citizens’ trust in the state to the law created by the state certain stability in the functioning of the legal system The basic goal of the

8:01:50 | bill is to implement the proposed act on the Constitutional Tribunal, which has already been mentioned here today, which is to

8:01:58 | happen in a specific period time and also the clarification of this

8:02:03 | period, which is included in the act in the relevant provisions, is also spread out in time in the second to fifth article of this project, there is a proposal to make

8:02:13 | changes to the relevant acts, including the act on the exercise of the mandate of a deputy and senator, on political parties, on the limitation of conducting business activity

8:02:20 | by persons performing public functions and on employees of courts and prosecutor’s offices. Pursuant to Article s of the draft, the relevant

8:02:30 | amendments to the relevant Acts of November 30, 2013 on the status of judges of the Constitutional Tribunal of November 30, 2013, the organization

8:02:39 | of proceedings before the Tribunal and December 13 2013, provisions introducing the Act on the organization and procedure of proceedings before the

8:02:46 | Constitutional Tribunal and the Act on the status of judges of the Tribunal, further in the subsequent articles from Article 7 to 15 of this project, there are appropriate

8:02:55 | transitional provisions, it adapts the project, it is about the possibility of

8:03:04 | voluntary transition that was mentioned today into a state of rest by a judge whose term of office began before the date of entry into force of the new Act on the Tribunal in

8:03:11 | the following articles 12 and 13 the regulations proposed with a dose of changes relating to the organization of the functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal, the status

8:03:20 | of the Tribunal’s employees, certain liquidation and the dualism of

8:03:25 | the administrative support of the Tribunal, the applicant assumes that the process of such

8:03:31 | restructuring of this support began no later than after one month from the date of entry into force of the new Act on the Tribunal and will end no later

8:03:39 | than after the 18th month of the new

8:03:44 | Act being in force, in accordance with these provisions, double judges cannot adjudicate, they give way to properly elected judges of the Tribunal. And just as I have already

8:03:53 | said that the judgments of the tribunal issued with the participation of persons not authorized to adjudicate are invalid and have no legal consequences; therefore, there is

8:04:01 | an obligation to repeat all procedural activities in which persons not authorized to adjudicate participated. A project that actually

8:04:11 | restores the functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal assumes that the Tribunal will function inconsistently with with political interests, but precisely as

8:04:19 | part of resolving key issues for citizens, the laws and regulations that are in force in

8:04:26 | Poland Thank you, Mr. MP, for presenting the justification for the bill contained in

8:04:34 | document 254. I will ask Mrs.

8:04:46 | Katarzyna, Mrs. Marshal, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber, as it

8:04:57 | is more important to restore the independence of the constitutional tribunal thanks to

8:05:03 | the proposed changes, we can recreate the system of law control in accordance with

8:05:08 | the constitution, these are solutions that will restore citizens’ sense of security and certainty of economic transactions will allow us to take another step towards

8:05:18 | achieving milestones due to the clearly political involvement

8:05:25 | of the majority of judges elected to the Tribunal after the 2015 parliamentary elections including persons performing functions such as president and

8:05:33 | vice-president of this body The Constitutional Tribunal in its current composition and has practically become a political institution which, under the guise of

8:05:43 | controlling the constitutionality of the law, legalizes legal acts legalization legal acts inconsistent with the basic values expressed in

8:05:54 | the Constitution, we all care about restoring the rule of law, this is our

8:06:00 | commitment, the coalition’s commitment On October 15, we are creating new, strong

8:06:07 | mechanisms that will protect the Constitutional Tribunal against usurpation by

8:06:12 | those in power today and tomorrow in the current composition

8:06:18 | of the Tribunal, in the current composition of the Tribunal, there are people who are not authorized to adjudicate, their election was in violation of the Constitution, the tribunal that

8:06:28 | was supposed to guard the Constitution, guarded the position of the Constitutional

8:06:35 | State of PiS instead of protecting the interests of citizens and the citizen protected party

8:06:41 | interests by acting on a political order by phone from Nowogrodzka than the PiS government created a catalog of post-constitutional institutions,

8:06:49 | an alternative system of judicial power that did not represent

8:06:55 | constitutional bodies but parasitized on empty names and

8:07:01 | it all started with the Constitutional Tribunal and from unpublished judgments today we are creating a New Beginning Today,

8:07:13 | the Sejm agreed that in the total discussion on these items on the agenda, it will listen to 15-minute statements on behalf of the clubs and in the name of the

8:07:23 | group I am opening the discussion zapr KRS szui parliamentary club Law and

8:07:36 | Justice I am very sorry, Mr Szczucki Dear Madam Speaker of the House, I have the honor to present my position

8:07:45 | Law and Justice parliamentary club to two draft bills –

8:07:50 | the act on the Constitutional Tribunal and the act on the provisions introducing the act on

8:07:56 | the Constitutional Tribunal, ladies and gentlemen. In the last local government elections, it

8:08:03 | was the ninth election in a row in which the best result was achieved by Law and

8:08:09 | Justice. Poles once again gave us a great mandate of trust. and an equally

8:08:15 | great proof of distrust towards the current parliamentary majority Poles do not agree

8:08:21 | and clearly negatively assess this creeping coup d’état carried out by

8:08:27 | the December 13 coalition they do not agree to the funded neoliberal

8:08:57 | TR issues these projects can be summarized basically in three points Firstly,

8:09:03 | the removal of the duly elected president of the constitutional tribunal and all judges of the Constitutional Tribunal, secondly, invalidation of judgments that do not

8:09:13 | suit, that do not suit the ruling coalition of liquidators, and thirdly,

8:09:18 | complete subordination, total subordination to this coalition of the

8:09:24 | Constitutional Tribunal. I wonder why in the speeches of numerous MPs who justified these two projects, none

8:09:33 | of you commented on the position Commissioner for Human Rights, Professor Marcin Wiącek, he leaves no stone unturned on these projects,

8:09:42 | he points out that the adoption of these projects will lead to disruption of the proper

8:09:47 | functioning of the state, disruption of the proper functioning of the state, this is a quote, ladies and gentlemen

8:09:57 | , the draft laws that we have to discuss today, point out that we need a new act on the Tribunal Constitutional But when you compare these

8:10:08 | acts with the current legal order, apart from these three fundamental points that I have already mentioned here, you mean one more thing

8:10:18 | – dismiss all employees of the Constitutional Tribunal – dismiss all

8:10:23 | those who do not meet the expectations expressed by Donald Tusk, MP

8:10:30 | Kamila G Pichowicz someone else from the coalition on December 13 All employees

8:10:36 | of the Constitutional Tribunal of these internal units of this institution who do not meet these expectations will automatically be deprived of their job

8:10:45 | If they do not receive a new job offer within 18 months from the date of entry into force of these regulations,

8:10:51 | Professor Marcin Wiącek, the Ombudsman, will present his opinion that the HR reorganization This is again

8:11:00 | a quote from the tribunal, a quote from the Constitutional Tribunal cannot assume full freedom in terminating employment relations. And such full freedom

8:11:08 | is provided for in the presented regulations which are supposed to be the essence of the rule of law,

8:11:14 | the essence of democracy. Well, the essence of the rule of law is mass dismissal. employees of the Constitutional Tribunal those who recently called themselves

8:11:24 | Defenders of the Constitution are becoming its grabari the draft of the new act on the Constitutional Tribunal is a judgment

8:11:33 | you have passed on this institution calling you defenders of

8:11:38 | democracy defenders of the rule of law is like calling road pirates defenders of road safety a draft submitted by the coalition

8:11:48 | December 13 was actually written by experts from

8:11:54 | the IMI foundation founded by George Soros, so

8:12:00 | the architects of the Polish neo-constitutional order are people not elected by anyone, having no social mandate,

8:12:09 | democratic mandate and bearing no responsibility to anyone – these are new

8:12:15 | anti-standards introduced by you into public life, meet the expectations

8:12:22 | of the Committee for the Defense of Democracy, other organizations that

8:12:27 | have consistently fought against the Polish state for the last 8 years,

8:12:32 | you have been talking about the separation of powers for 8 years, but with these

8:12:39 | laws you want to shake what is fundamental in a democratic state

8:12:45 | with this very division on the legislative, executive and judicial powers,

8:12:50 | your bill is to make the Sejm a body superior to the Constitutional Tribunal and its judges and its judgments, the Sejm

8:13:01 | has no right to judge who is and who is not a judge of the Constitutional Tribunal after

8:13:08 | the president, the head of state, has taken the oath of office from people elected

8:13:14 | by the Sejm to these positions have no right to judge When

8:13:20 | the term of office of the President of the Constitutional Tribunal began and when it ends,

8:13:25 | contrary to the opinion of the Ombudsman for Human Rights Marcin Wiącek, you claim that Julia Przyłębska is not the president of the Constitutional Tribunal, it is not even

8:13:34 | about this Ladies and Gentlemen, that it is the statement is substantive nonsense, but the point is that the Sejm has no right to comment on this subject, it has no right

8:13:42 | to decide about it, it has no right to resolve this matter in the provisions of the act that

8:13:48 | the already mentioned Ombudsman Marcin Wiącek intends to adopt,

8:13:53 | your attempt to dismiss the president from the tribunal he called the Constitutional Tribunal ex officio

8:13:58 | before the end of his term a dangerous precedent, I use

8:14:04 | stronger words, it is simply an attack on the Constitution, the Sejm, Ladies and Gentlemen,

8:14:10 | also has no competence to assess which judgments of the

8:14:16 | Constitutional Tribunal are valid and which are not. We all remember the Constitution of

8:14:24 | 1952, amended when it was decided the creation of a Constitutional Tribunal and

8:14:30 | these provisions provided for the possibility of repealing some, but only

8:14:36 | some, judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal declaring the unconstitutionality of laws and decrees, and this by an appropriate qualified majority

8:14:45 | of votes. But you are reaching precisely for the best standards in your opinion,

8:14:52 | the Sejm cannot also judge Who is entitled to the vote

8:14:59 | Sorry, to the Judgments in the Constitutional Tribunal, in your opinion, some judges are supposedly old, this is not in the current version

8:15:10 | of the project, but your authorities keep reminding some of the judges of the Constitutional Tribunal of their age, but you forget that in 2000, at least five years ago,

8:15:20 | some of you they elected the then 70-year-old Professor Marek Mazurkiewicz to the Constitutional Tribunal, age did not

8:15:29 | bother you then, age only bothers you if it was achieved by judges elected by a majority of Law and Justice MPs, today

8:15:39 | you want to take political revenge on judges who have the courage to

8:15:46 | oppose the dictatorship coalition of December 13 who have the courage to

8:15:52 | issue a judgment stating that it is not possible to liquidate the public media who have the courage to issue a judgment stating that

8:16:01 | by an absolute majority of votes the Sejm cannot bring the president of the National Bank of Poland before the state tribunal who have the courage express opinions on the basis of

8:16:11 | the Constitution, on the basis of the Constitution, within its limits, on many other issues that are not convenient, are not consistent with the party line presented by

8:16:21 | the civic platform of its allies, by the currently ruling coalition, anyone

8:16:26 | a member of the current constitutional tribunal is a legal judge, a legally elected judge and has the right and obligation to complete his term of office,

8:16:37 | you can claim that MPs are not MPs, judges of the Constitutional Tribunal are not judges of the Constitutional Tribunal, and we will probably

8:16:46 | soon find out that white is black and black is white, this is the logic functioning of the current ruling majority, you want to remove

8:16:58 | all the judges sitting in it from the constitutional tribunal because what does

8:17:04 | the institution of early retirement provided for in the regulations introducing this idea mean, should judges treat it as a threat?

8:17:14 | If they do not leave voluntarily, we will remove you by force, this is how these

8:17:19 | provisions of both Acts should be read that are being discussed here in this room today, you want

8:17:25 | to introduce a hood court that will allow you to arbitrarily remove judges from the

8:17:30 | Constitutional Tribunal, for example by introducing retired judges of the

8:17:38 | Constitutional Tribunal to adjudicate on disciplinary cases, I will not mention the names here, but most of them, those who speak publicly, deal with an open political position favoring

8:17:47 | your majority, you want to remove legally elected judges from the Constitutional Tribunal with their votes, we all remember how in 2017

8:17:58 | some of them gathered at the headquarters of the Civic Platform at Wiejska Street, with their votes you want to take over the Constitutional Tribunal

8:18:08 | instead of eliminating, Ladies and Gentlemen, the current In Poland, the hierarchy of sources of law, instead of statutes and the Constitution, should be governed by

8:18:18 | resolutions, your opinions, your beliefs, the law as Donald Tusk understands it, and

8:18:24 | not as it was adopted in and signed by the President and published in the Journal of Laws, but I will return, Ladies and Gentlemen, for

8:18:35 | a moment to the introductory provisions and I can’t believe it, I’ll tell you once again

8:18:40 | The Act provides for an act adopted by a simple majority, an ordinary act,

8:18:46 | the invalidation of judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal, and this has never happened before, where the Constitution grants the Sejm the right to decide which judgment of the

8:18:56 | Constitutional Tribunal, a judgment given by a competent bench, is announced as

8:19:02 | a judgment and which is not an act. is supposed to invalidate the judgments of the

8:19:07 | Constitutional Tribunal, this does not fit, Ladies and Gentlemen, into the categories of understanding

8:19:12 | the Constitution, again a quote from the opinion of the Ombudsman, Professor Wiącek, who writes that most of

8:19:22 | the judgments, as he should understand, are those issued by Łady who were allegedly

8:19:27 | incorrect, were substantively justified and a significant and

8:19:33 | some of them are beneficial from the point of view of the protection of human rights and freedoms, you want to invalidate these judgments, you want to throw them into the trash, contrary to

8:19:42 | the constitution, without any legal basis, interestingly, to invalidate the judgments because

8:19:51 | the judges do not respond to you, but the decisions involving them are already in force, this is the article introductory regulations What, when they issued

8:19:59 | decisions, they were judges of the Constitutional Tribunal, and when they issued judgments, they were no longer judges, this is a tactic. Moreover,

8:20:09 | the national prosecutor used in this government, Mr. Dariusz Barski, was a prosecutor, was not, was not, depending on which of these concepts is for it’s convenient for you, that’s what you use and

8:20:18 | that’s exactly what’s happening in this case, Ladies and Gentlemen, the draft new act of

8:20:25 | these two Acts on the Tribunal is not even unconstitutional, it’s just anti-constitutional, it’s violating the basic principles of democracy, you know what, you didn’t

8:20:35 | even give up on taking the oath because when do you read into these the provisions are Article 20

8:20:41 | of the submitted draft bill on the Constitutional Tribunal deprives judges of the Constitutional Tribunal the ability to add the words So help me God, here it is, Ladies

8:20:51 | and Gentlemen, this possibility has not yet been available in the Polish system, this constitution

8:20:56 | grants the president a guarantee, guarantees parliamentarians in democratic Poland, judges of the Constitutional Tribunal granted this possibility to subsequent laws about

8:21:05 | the Constitutional Tribunal And you are once again serving us a return to the People’s Republic of Poland, this

8:21:12 | is a perfect example of how you want to break the conscience of judges, judges who will not be able to appeal to God and judges who will not be able to judge

8:21:20 | in accordance with their own conscience, only with the conscience you give them, you will send them a text message in an e-mail or text message, you want to break the spines of the judges of the

8:21:31 | Constitutional Tribunal, Ladies and Gentlemen, a characteristic feature of your power is

8:21:37 | the inversion of the meaning of basic concepts, you write about the dignity of the office of a judge And

8:21:43 | you mean political submission, you talk about objectivity and you mean the subjective will of your parliamentary majority, you repeat the adjective

8:21:53 | AP political and in your mouth it means depths

8:21:58 | unknown in Poland after 1989 until the end of

8:22:05 | 2003 Ladies and Gentlemen, Madam Speaker, High Chamber,

8:22:10 | the Law and Justice parliamentary club submits motions to reject both projects. In the first reading, thank you very much, thank you

8:22:19 | very much, damier

8:22:31 | , Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, High Chamber The Constitutional Tribunal is

8:22:37 | an independent body of the judiciary whose task is to control the legislative power. This is how it should be, but it has not been like this for 8 years. The

8:22:47 | Constitutional Tribunal has become a tool in the hands of PiS politicians used

8:22:52 | to implement political tasks. It is not the citizen’s interest, but the party’s interest that has become

8:22:58 | the key goal. Not without reason. Jarosław Kaczyński called Julia Przyłębska his social discovery. This statement was not accidental. Such

8:23:08 | words were spoken publicly against a judge by the head of a

8:23:14 | political party. They are not said without a reason. They served to show who has power in

8:23:20 | the Constitutional Tribunal. They announced the restoration of the independence of the Tribunal and this creates

8:23:28 | strong mechanisms that will protect the Tribunal against such acts. with the actions

8:23:34 | used by PiS, we will create a project that was not born in the rump of

8:23:40 | party cabinets, the result of this work is a social project, an expert and,

8:23:46 | above all, apolitical project, has received the support of 48 social organizations, it is a kind of

8:23:57 | kek zian of a systemic nature, the judges of the Tribunal will be

8:24:03 | selected in a transparent manner, an innovative solution will be public hearing at an open meeting of the committee, the purpose of the hearing

8:24:13 | will be to present the candidates, to demonstrate their knowledge,

8:24:20 | professional experience, and to ask for a way that the Tribunal

8:24:27 | , not the outstanding knowledge and experience, but knowledge and experience

8:24:33 | will be the key criteria for the election of judges, will also be served by

8:24:38 | the solution according to which the person holding the mandate of a senator a member

8:24:44 | of the European Parliament or a member of the Council of Ministers will not be able

8:24:49 | to apply for the position of a judge of a tribunal,

8:24:55 | people who have not been active politicians for at least C years will be able to run for

8:25:02 | judges of this tribunal , so far the Sejm has elected judges by a simple majority of votes, now it will elect them by qualified

8:25:11 | majority , obtaining the proposed majority will guarantee that

8:25:17 | a person will be elected as a judge who will be distinguished by legal knowledge but also by moral attributes, we will

8:25:28 | expand the group of entities authorized to nominate candidates for judges of the Tribunal in order to ensure the guarantee of the independence and apolitical nature of judges,

8:25:39 | so far candidates have been nominated by the Presidium of the Sejm or A group of 50 MPs will now be able to nominate other groups, not only

8:25:48 | representatives of the Sejm, this is the general assembly of judges of the Supreme Court, the general assembly of the Supreme Administrative Court, the

8:25:58 | national council of prosecutors, we are introducing solutions according to which the principle

8:26:04 | will be to consider the case at an open hearing, only in a few situations it will be possible to consider it matters at a closed session when

8:26:13 | the case is undisputed, citizens must know that the Constitutional Tribunal is

8:26:19 | transparent, we are introducing changes to the disciplinary court before the amendment

8:26:29 | of the Central Committee. The proposed regulation assumes that the composition of the disciplinary court will be

8:26:35 | drawn from among judges, both professionally active and retired, after all, they bear disciplinary liability for

8:26:44 | such the same principles as professionally active judges There will also be no more

8:26:49 | talk

8:26:57 | with the judge, which was often done during the examination of a case of this type. This type

8:27:06 | of practice does not fit into any standards of a democratic state of law, we are introducing good solutions to

8:27:13 | to prevent similar situations in the future, this assembly will have the competence to choose

8:27:27 | the president of the tribunal as a single person to influence the judicial activity

8:27:32 | of this body, this will no longer be done by the president of the constitutional tribunal, but it will be done collectively and

8:27:41 | transparently, the changes will also apply to the term of office of the president of the tribunal, the term of office will last 3 years and not as before6 and it will be possible

8:27:52 | to hold this function only once again under the project of other very important solutions, taking into

8:28:00 | account the negative experience with the refusal to take the oath of judges duly elected by the Sejm, the president will be obliged to

8:28:09 | accept the oath of office from the judge within 14 days from the date of selection

8:28:15 | of a full bench of the Tribunal is at least nine judges of the Tribunal, this solution

8:28:20 | will largely eliminate the risk that

8:28:29 | the formation of a full bench actually prevents quick and efficient

8:28:35 | examination of the case, we will introduce a new definition of the term, a case of

8:28:41 | particular complexity, such a case will also be considered a case of

8:28:47 | social importance and not how

8:28:56 | the CWC should present information on significant problems resulting from the activities of the tribunal’s jurisprudence so far the lack of a specified deadline has led to numerous

8:29:06 | delays in the implementation of this obligation in 2024 we have heard the report for

8:29:15 | 2022 and what an important solution will be a different way of examining

8:29:23 | constitutional complaints under

8:29:29 | a specific provision with the constitution but also whether it was created in accordance with

8:29:35 | the Constitution and must do so even if the Complainant does not raise

8:29:41 | an objection to the correctness of the process of adopting the provision. The above-mentioned proposals raise hope that in Poland each of us will

8:29:51 | feel safe. The stake in the dispute is the equality of rights. for everyone, not only for

8:30:00 | a select few, the law must be a rule of coexistence in the state and society, it cannot be a tool for enforcing the interests of political parties. I am requesting the

8:30:10 | adoption of this project and then, Mr. President, signing

8:30:15 | the bill. Thank you, MP, I invite you, MP Patryk Jaskulski,

8:30:22 | parliamentary club, Civic Coalition. Thank you very much, dear Madam Speaker Dear Minister, Honorable Member of the Chamber Please imagine a certain picture, there is

8:30:32 | a building, there are employees, there is a budget. Well, actually, this budget, you know, it

8:30:37 | wasn’t even that small, because in 2022, one judgment of the Constitutional Tribunal cost the Polish taxpayer as much as PLN 3 million. And finally,

8:30:46 | There are judges, there are verdicts, but despite this tangible evidence,

8:30:52 | does the Constitutional Tribunal still care about its judgments? You will tell

8:30:59 | me that it is impossible for him not to exist, but I will tell you that even this is possible after 8 years of rule by the united

8:31:08 | right wing. years After these years of populist rule, the question remains: What remains of the institution that was supposed to guard Polish democracy, to guard

8:31:18 | the compliance of the law with the act of the highest order with the constitution? Today, the Tribune is

8:31:23 | just

8:31:28 | the

8:31:34 | beginning

8:31:39 | . double judges , the refusal to publish his judgments,

8:31:52 | all this meant that the Constitutional Tribunal practically does not exist,

8:31:58 | its judgments do not have the force they deserve because can they

8:32:03 | they voted here in this parliamentary hall, no, they cannot, because it is an overestimation

8:32:08 | of the rule of law and judicial independence, this is confirmed by the Supreme Court. This was confirmed by the Constitutional Tribunal itself before it was taken over by Law and

8:32:18 | Justice. And these unfavorable judgments were not

8:32:23 | published, contrary to the law. This is also confirmed by the judicial authorities, this is confirmed by the European Court of Human Rights. law experts, scientists and

8:32:33 | practitioners, constitutionalists and judges, in fact, until the judgment that brought

8:32:39 | millions of women to the streets in 2022, hardly anyone in Poland was interested in the

8:32:44 | Constitutional Tribunal until the day of the judgment in which the body that was supposed to guard the law

8:32:50 | of self-proclaimed content and tightened the abortion law in Poland,

8:32:57 | history is a teacher Life on that day paradoxically taught us Poles something

8:33:03 | in the rule of lawlessness, he made Poles aware that the law is important and an independent Constitutional Tribunal is the fuse that guarantees

8:33:13 | the stability of the law, which the Constitutional Tribunal stands behind today if

8:33:19 | only one party is involved, it is a denial of democracy, a denial of

8:33:26 | the purpose for which such a grim Today we see the image of the politicized

8:33:33 | nature of the Constitutional Tribunal very clearly and clearly. How

8:33:39 | to fix the state of affairs, the answer to this question can be found in

8:33:44 | the presented draft Acts, these are the first and necessary steps in the long

8:33:50 | process of restoring the foundations of a democratic state of law, this is the first step in rebuilding society to this very important level.

8:33:58 | institutions, the purpose of the proposed act is to eliminate the state of dysfunctionality of the system for controlling the constitutionality of law by

8:34:07 | restoring the proper place and rank of the tribunal to the democratic system of state bodies. We will achieve this goal by adopting two acts: the new act on

8:34:18 | the Constitutional Tribunal and the organizational and technical act introducing the act on the Constitutional Tribunal, the content of which are provisions adapting

8:34:27 | the Tribunal in its current shape for the needs of the new Act on the Constitutional Tribunal, what will this Act change? The first group of provisions constituting

8:34:36 | adjustment regulations introduce changes to those Acts that were amended by the Acts of 2016 introducing the Act on

8:34:45 | the organization and procedure of proceedings before the Constitutional Tribunal and on the status of judges of the Constitutional Tribunal importantly, with this act

8:34:52 | we are restoring the status of employees of the Constitutional Tribunal as state officials, we are also restoring the obligation repealed in 2016 to provide information on

8:35:03 | the conduct of business activity by the spouse of the Constitutional Tribunal, full transparency, second group, second group of proposed

8:35:12 | regulations are regulations repealing the act, which will repeal the current one in force and which

8:35:18 | is inconsistent with the Constitutional order of a state ruled by law. laws shaping the current status of the Constitutional Tribunal, the intention of the applicant,

8:35:26 | expressed in the seventh article of the draft, is to invalidate judgments issued by the constitutional tribunal with the participation of persons who were not entitled to sit on this

8:35:35 | body, the election of these persons to the Constitutional Tribunal and their subsequent acceptance of the oath by the President of the Republic of Poland was

8:35:44 | the beginning of the Constitutional crisis as a result, three people who did not have the authority to be judges of the Constitutional Tribunal sat and adjudicated in the

8:35:53 | Constitutional Tribunal We also need to restore the Tribunal to its proper structures, we must, in accordance with the principle of legalism, elect the president and

8:36:01 | vice-president of the Tribunal, because from 2022 the president

8:36:06 | of the Tribunal will be a self-proclaimed person, not the socialite of the head of the former

8:36:12 | government party until today. After all despite the assurances, despite the promises made at the

8:36:18 | Justice Committee, the president did not submit or made available to the public the resolutions of the general assembly of judges

8:36:26 | confirming her election for the next term. This project was also supported by

8:36:32 | 48 nationwide social and professional organizations, including the Association of Prosecutors Lexu per Omnia, the Association of Polish Judges

8:36:39 | Justycja and the Association of Judges Temis and several dozen other organizations working for democracy are a huge social mandate, an

8:36:47 | important signpost for all of us, this act is a necessary step to restore the authority of the tribunal, a necessary step to restore the rule of law and the rule of law in Poland.

8:36:57 | That’s why I appeal to everyone, to every conscience who has

8:37:04 | democracy in their hearts, to support this project, let’s restore its rank and importance to the tribunal, let’s restore its role to the tribunal, thank you very much,

8:37:14 | thank you very much, Mr. MP, I invite you to speak. Mr. Tomasz Zim, parliamentary club, Poland 2050 TR, dear,

8:37:26 | Mr. High Marshal, Sejm, Mr. Minister,

8:37:32 | sandpaper is not enough for severe corrosion, it would be effective if it had to be eliminated only small rust bubbles severe rust requires grinders and such grinders are

8:37:42 | the draft Acts regarding the heavily corroded Constitutional Tribunal a team of legal experts from the Stefan Bat Foundation

8:37:52 | the old alarm, the weakening system, the

8:37:58 | vibrations in the Constitutional Tribunal have been destroyed by the Tribunal for

8:38:03 | years because the judgments were issued by double judges, because of manipulation, because the law was broken. Because the Tribunal was dependent on the previous

8:38:14 | ruling team and it seems that that team still wants to serve

8:38:25 | the Constitutional Tribunal whose goal is to stop the chamber and its bodies

8:38:31 | before considering the preliminary application to hold

8:38:36 | the president of the National Bank of Poland accountable before the state tribunal, the Speaker of the Sejm ordered

8:38:43 | analyzes and there is no doubt that the Constitutional Tribunal, by issuing this decision,

8:38:48 | clearly exceeded its powers, after all, the Act on the

8:38:54 | Constitutional Tribunal states that such a decision can only be issued by the tribunal in the case of considering the constitutional complaint and

8:39:03 | the competence dispute between state authorities, Marshal Szymon

8:39:09 | Hołownia rightly stated that he safeguards the authority of the chamber and will not allow anyone to illegally interfere with the competences and constitutional rights

8:39:19 | of the Sejm. The Constitutional Tribunal has become a security company for some, unauthorized persons submit various

8:39:28 | types of requests for protection against virtually everything, an example from

8:39:33 | yesterday. The National Council of the Judiciary sent a shameful request to the Tribunal to examine the constitutionality of one of the articles of the Convention for the Protection

8:39:43 | of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and the provisions of the Rules of Procedure of the European Court of Human Rights. 12 judges and a representative of the President showed a calm attitude

8:39:55 | towards international ties and the obligation respecting and implementing the Judgments

8:40:01 | of the European Court of Human Rights that are binding on the Polish authorities, submitting

8:40:07 | an application to the politicized Constitutional Tribunal is an extremely harmful action for the Polish legal order, it completely undermines

8:40:16 | the sense of recognizing the jurisdiction of the European Court and perhaps even

8:40:22 | Poland’s membership in the Council of Europe In accordance with Article 27 of the

8:40:27 | Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties The State cannot invoke its domestic law, including the Constitution, as a justification for failure to comply with

8:40:37 | its obligations under international law. The National Council

8:40:42 | of the Judiciary does not have the standing to submit an application to the Court in this particular case. Pursuant to Article

8:40:50 | 191 of the Constitution, the National Council of the Judiciary cannot invoke on its constitutional legitimacy to

8:40:58 | question the compliance of legal acts with the provisions of the Constitution in a situation where, through its own actions, it misappropriates its constitutional role of guarding

8:41:08 | the independence of courts and the independence of judges, a properly constituted

8:41:15 | Constitutional Court and guided by objective premises should refuse to grant proceedings to the application constructed in this way due to the actual purpose of this application,

8:41:26 | consequently, the lack of legitimacy on the part of the National Council of the Judiciary to initiate constitutional review,

8:41:35 | Article 46 of the Convention is questioned by the Council of the Judiciary and in its entirety, to the extent indicated in

8:41:40 | the application, is fully consistent with the provisions of the Constitution, does not violate the principles of a democratic state of law

8:41:47 | , implements the principles of social justice, does not violate the principle sovereignty or the hierarchy of sources of law, the High Sejm, the cores need to

8:41:59 | be removed, these projects are part of a broad project of changes to the Constitutional Tribunal, which also includes a project to amend the Constitution, this is the so-called

8:42:09 | Constitutional reset, in short, so as not to be repeated, including the election

8:42:14 | of the judges of the Tribunal by a majority of 35 votes. It’s a pity that there is no MPs from Law and

8:42:20 | Justice, these projects are an extract,

8:42:28 | we appeal to the Senate to present the draft amendments to

8:42:34 | the Constitution to the Sejm, the project is extremely pro-citizen, it opens up more opportunities for citizens and social organizations to bring cases to the Tribunal,

8:42:44 | the project brings order. The dramatic

8:42:50 | Constitutional crisis of 20123

8:42:55 | means that the doubles will not can sit on the Tribunal, it will create real grounds for

8:43:00 | bringing disciplinary cases against judges whose public activities violate all standards of independence, High Parliament,

8:43:10 | we will protect the Tribunal against destructive rust, we should all ensure

8:43:20 | the parliament also

8:43:27 | to defend the right of Polish people to deal with their

8:43:33 | interests Thank you, MP, I invite MP Paweł Slippery to speak

8:43:40 | parliamentary club Poland TR dear p marshal High Chamber

8:43:46 | The Constitutional Tribunal for the last three decades has been in the narrow field of PR, under

8:43:56 | which judges have adjudicated on possibly the greatest scientific achievements and practical, and who, based on these competences, created jurisprudence

8:44:04 | guaranteeing citizens the protection of their rights and freedoms. Moreover, these judges developed many groundbreaking decisions, lines of jurisprudence whose

8:44:13 | subsequent application defined the validity of the best standards implementing the principles of a modern and democratic state of law.

8:44:21 | The above history, within the outlined framework, was, however, thrown out to the trash bin and

8:44:26 | began to be written again after 2015 and Law and Justice took power, since then virtually everything that could be spoiled has been spoiled,

8:44:35 | starting with the institution that lost its authority and the ability to effectively adjudicate by the members of this institution, i.e.

8:44:43 | judges who are far from to independence from politicians and whose participation in the Adjudication is, to put it mildly, questionable from the formal point of view,

8:44:53 | and what is more, from the organizational point of view, the functioning of the constitutional tribunal is regulated simultaneously in three acts such normative dualism is

8:45:04 | incompatible with the principle of certainty of legal clarity and leads to many unjustified doubts about the political system To sum up, it should also be pointed out that in

8:45:13 | the context of the Constitutional Tribunal it goes so far as to restore lasting normative foundations and effective, reliable and independent control

8:45:22 | of the constitutionality of law in Poland as much as a legislative initiative due to these 15 deputies, but in fact their duty to emphasize, above all,

8:45:34 | the fact that the draft law was the subject of extensive and long-term

8:45:39 | public and professional consultations in which experts in the field of constitutional law took part, as well as public trust organizations whose

8:45:48 | basic activity is the protection of the standards of a democratic state of law, which is important solutions, more than the subject of many debates at

8:45:58 | conferences and scientific speeches, so this is a project after a wide and thorough verification And what is significant is the project of support of 48

8:46:08 | social organizations and from various sides of the political scene, not necessarily favorable to the current ruling coalition but at the same time understanding how much

8:46:17 | wrong the rule of Law and Justice has done, in fact deforming the Constitutional Tribunal all GY and addressed and I would also like

8:46:28 | to thank you from this place all those thanks to whom this Act has such a

8:46:33 | cross-sectional and professional character, it also shows that our promise of a fundamental change in the standards of passing laws in contrast to

8:46:42 | the compromising actions of the previous government are not just empty words, but facts that we consistently turn into specifics, including, among others,

8:46:50 | this project We also want to convey that this is absolutely not the end in restoring the rule of law, we are at the beginning of the road and there is

8:46:58 | still a lot of work ahead of us, which we expect and for which, above all, we are ready, and going back to the act, I would like

8:47:06 | to add that this act is in fact finally opening up to the citizen. finally , show the citizen that the Constitutional Tribunal is a very

8:47:15 | important foundation in the entire rule of law. Your

8:47:22 | project is social because it was prepared by the Foundation,

8:47:28 | by associations, in a broad conversation between citizens, but this is not the end, because this project received even more opinions, including

8:47:39 | critical ones , even in the Sejm. opinions, but very good, because this is the area we want to talk about, I hope that this bill will also be sent to a committee that

8:47:48 | will also conduct public debates, as was the case with the bill.

8:47:55 | How many groups could have come How many different voices could have been submitted while working

8:48:02 | on There is still hard work ahead of us with this act. Let us note that we are finally, in

8:48:08 | fact, repairing what has recently been devastated by centralization. See, Dear Members, the same is true of the Act on the Tribunal.

8:48:17 | Constitutionally, we give the powers of the president to the assembly so that it does not have any influence. Just so that

8:48:29 | it is made available to a wider group and this shows

8:48:35 | openness. The same short term of office of the President of the Constitutional Tribunal is three years, which can be re-elected for another three-year term. And

8:48:45 | what is very important, nominating candidates to the Constitutional Tribunal,

8:48:51 | we are again giving it back to the de facto scope of the citizen’s ability to report

8:48:58 | not only through the Assembly of the Supreme Administrative Court but also, for example, through the Supreme Bar Council through the Chamber of Legal Advisers, this is

8:49:08 | opening up to the citizen. But most importantly, we are not afraid that we must

8:49:15 | obtain a consensus on what to the judges of the Constitutional Tribunal,

8:49:20 | electing judges by a majority of 35, show and here in this plenary room we have to

8:49:27 | come to an agreement and agree on who these judges of the Constitutional Tribunal must be and what is most important, these judges cannot be politicians, and finally,

8:49:36 | it cannot be the case that from the Sejm benches in which we worked on the laws, we go to the Constitutional Tribunal and there we decide whether I created

8:49:46 | this law correctly, this grace period between being an active politician, MP, senator, and

8:49:52 | being a judge of the Kony and Kojna RCZ tribunal, the disciplinary responsibility of judges, it will

8:50:01 | actually be given to a wider group of these judges, because

8:50:06 | inclusion in the disciplinary judiciary will also and the retirement of judges is

8:50:12 | a demonstration of the transparency that we talk about all the time. I hope

8:50:18 | that the entire package of these laws, including the amendment to the Constitution,

8:50:25 | will pass the Sejm and the president, who is the guardian of the Constitution, will lean over

8:50:32 | and see that these are really good changes to this constitution.

8:50:38 | Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP. I invite you. Member of Parliament Michał Pyżyk parliamentary club Polish People’s Party, three

8:50:48 | way, thank you,

8:50:55 | poe, People’s Party, three way, present your position on the parliamentary bill on the Constitutional Tribunal. At the beginning,

8:51:04 | it should be emphasized and recalled that the role of the Constitutional Tribunal in a democratic state of law is special and superior, it is an independent entity

8:51:13 | separate from the courts. the constitutional body of the state, the tribunal should always

8:51:18 | have a position independent of the political power, both from the Parliament and from the president of the Council of Ministers, its functioning, the method

8:51:27 | of appointing judges and the legal status of judgments should ensure that it remains independent also from other bodies of the judiciary, such

8:51:37 | as The Supreme Court or the Supreme Administrative Court in such a role in a democratic state of law. The Constitutional Tribunal also remains outside

8:51:47 | the system of the National Council of the Judiciary in recent years in Poland. What we all

8:51:52 | witnessed were normative, functional and organizational problems of the Constitutional Tribunal, affecting both the quality of its

8:52:01 | jurisprudence and the reliability of and efficiency of functioning n there was

8:52:08 | a serious constitutional crisis related to the incorrect selection of judges of the Tribunal, defective appointment of its president and vice-president,

8:52:17 | a deficit of independence and the lack of stability of the basis of the Tribunal’s norms, which led to a significant

8:52:28 | decline in the quality of judgments and the organizational destabilization of the Tribunal,

8:52:33 | which was manifested by among other things, the notorious

8:52:45 | public appeals, there was also a significant drop in the number of

8:52:51 | constitutional complaints, legal questions and motions submitted to the Constitutional Tribunal and, consequently, a visible drop in the number of

8:53:01 | decisions issued. The aim of developing and adopting a new Act on the Constitutional Tribunal is, above all, to create lasting normative foundations

8:53:10 | allowing for the reconstruction of the proper authority of the Tribunal. and restoring

8:53:15 | effective, reliable and independent control of the constitutionality of law in Poland;

8:53:21 | therefore, the discussed parliamentary bill – the judicial competences of the Tribunal

8:53:26 | resulting from the Constitution of the Republic of Poland and Poland’s membership in the European Union – have extended the competences

8:53:35 | of the general assembly of judges of the Tribunal, in particular as regards the competences to elect adjudicating panels and make decisions changes in them

8:53:44 | Generally speaking, in one sentence, the project assumes the primacy of the principle of collegiality over the single-person management of the tribunal and, in fact,

8:53:53 | its appropriation by the president, therefore individual provisions of the draft law

8:53:59 | also provide for a significant change in the competences and tasks of the president, including

8:54:05 | the limitation of his current role in determining the direction of the tribunal’s adjudicative activity, the project also introduces the term of office of this function is defined by

8:54:14 | a three-year term of office with the possibility of being appointed for another one time only.

8:54:19 | The provisions of the Act provide for the election of a judge of the constitutional tribunal by the Sejm by a qualified majority of 35 votes in the presence of at least half of

8:54:30 | the statutory number of deputies. According to the new provisions , only a person with a very broad scope will be able to become a judge of the tribunal. support in the Sejm, and

8:54:40 | I think in this context, Mr Szczucki said that individual

8:54:45 | judges of the Tribunal or the tribunal itself will be a hostage of the Sejm, to be honest, I prefer this definition to the statement that the tribunal is

8:54:54 | a hostage of only one president of a given political party, in addition, the project

8:55:00 | states that a person may be elected to the position of a judge of the tribunal a person aged 40 to 70 years In addition, the candidate must, of course, have outstanding

8:55:11 | legal knowledge, have the necessary qualifications and at the same time, which is very important in the current situation, cannot be an active politician, as my

8:55:21 | previous speakers have already mentioned, according to the project, judges of the Constitutional Tribunal can be elected only once for one nine-year term of office in the project, which is

8:55:31 | very important, the circle of entities that are entitled to nominate a candidate for the position of judge has been expanded, among other things, to

8:55:39 | prevent a situation in which only one candidate is nominated for one vacant position and the right to be elected by the Sejm is In a certain sense,

8:55:49 | the limited project also clearly resolves the dispute that has existed for years in the legal doctrine and eliminates the discrepancies in

8:55:58 | the case law regarding whether the tribunal is obliged to control from

8:56:03 | the Office the compliance of the entire procedure for issuing the questioned legal act in accordance with

8:56:09 | the proposed changes with the proposed project, such control becomes obligatory means that the tribunal checks two issues: firstly,

8:56:19 | the compliance of a specific provision with the constitution and, secondly, whether this provision was created in accordance with the constitution. Moreover, the draft act also contains a provision

8:56:29 | clearly articulating the obligation of the Constitutional Tribunal to submit a preliminary question to the Court of Justice of the European Union in

8:56:38 | situations referred to in referred to in Article 267 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, the proposed

8:56:46 | solutions also provide for the drawing of adjudicating panels in a very transparent manner during the meeting of the general assembly of judges of the Tribunal,

8:56:56 | and the composition of the disciplinary court, which will also be determined from among retired judges,

8:57:01 | is also changed, as was also mentioned. Ladies and Gentlemen, the project

8:57:07 | , together with the regulations implementing it, which my club colleague will talk about in a moment, is the end of

8:57:17 | the permanent deterioration of the Constitutional Tribunal that has been going on for years after the introduction of these changes. We will no longer hear about the composition of the Tribunal in Poland, the uncertainty

8:57:27 | of judgments and sessions, or that the Tribunal simply the parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the Third Way, is not working

8:57:34 | , being an advocate of good

8:57:39 | constitutional law, striving to repair it, after the years that have passed, I think rightly,

8:57:45 | I will be voting for the new parliamentary act on the Constitutional Tribunal. Thank you very much, Mr.

8:57:55 | Adam Orliński, the parliamentary club of the Polish People’s Party, the Third

8:58:03 | Way, Dear Madam Speaker. you, on behalf of the parliamentary club

8:58:10 | of the Polish People’s Party, the third way, I would like to present my position regarding this bill, which is actually two interconnected bills, a project

8:58:19 | that is necessary for all of us from this rostrum to repair the situation regarding the functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal, this is in fact the beginning

8:58:28 | of work on the reform of the Constitutional Tribunal, restoring its importance rank and this is the beginning of the work that we promised the voters are the voters When

8:58:39 | we talked about restoring the rule of law, that Polish law

8:58:44 | would actually be based on foundations, that the control of law in the Constitutional Tribunal would also be adequate to the regulations, the texts

8:58:54 | of individual Acts result from this, we promised our voters, the Sejm begins work on draft Acts reforming the Constitutional Tribunal, these projects are

8:59:02 | the result of the work of experts, which is here It rained also today for lawyers, but also what

8:59:08 | is in the justification for social consultations, presentation of this project

8:59:14 | and familiarization with it by over several dozen, over 40

8:59:19 | Non-Governmental Organizations, development of certain common positions, these provisions introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal are crucial, they regulate in

8:59:29 | their provisions all the most important elements, we want to ensure that The Constitutional Tribunal

8:59:35 | which, in our opinion, has lost the ability to carry out its constitutional functions and tasks, above all, the current composition of the

8:59:43 | Constitutional Tribunal includes persons who are not authorized to adjudicate because their election to the Constitutional Tribunal was in violation of the Constitution, which

8:59:51 | is also confirmed by the judgments of not only the 2015 judgment of the Tribunal but also

8:59:57 | of the European Tribunal Human Rights, the subordination of the tribunal

9:00:02 | we are talking about took place in such an almost political way, solely to political interests in response to the needs of the then ruling

9:00:12 | camp, which led to the loss of this body’s ability to perform constitutional functions, to implement constitutional principles, to

9:00:21 | the principle of a democratic state of law resulting from the Constitution, to implement this principle as the foundation of the rule of law in the current

9:00:29 | personnel composition, this body not only does not meet the standard of independence, but also does not meet the requirement of impartiality in adjudicating in specific cases,

9:00:38 | which we have talked about and which is also regulated by these provisions introducing the election of judges to positions already filled – total

9:00:47 | legal chaos currently operating in In Poland, the system for reviewing the constitutionality of law did not meet the basic principles of the democratic standard of the independence

9:00:57 | of the tribunal, the separation of powers, the independence of its judges, the tribunal should be

9:01:02 | the guardian of the constitutional principles of a democratic state, the ongoing crisis of the system for reviewing the constitutionality of law translated into a broader phenomenon of

9:01:12 | the crisis of the rule of law in the Republic of Poland, which we are all well aware of, which

9:01:17 | is crucial is to restore the proper functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal as a real, effective guardian of

9:01:27 | constitutional values. the aim of these projects of this parliamentary project is to

9:01:32 | eliminate the state of dysfunctionality of the control of the constitutionality of law by also restoring the rank of the

9:01:40 | Constitutional Tribunal in the democratic system of state bodies. the aim of the act of these introductory provisions is to isolate the tribunal which

9:01:48 | ceased to perform its constitutional role The selection of candidates by wider bodies and

9:01:54 | the candidates not taking political positions, which also in the current composition remains an element that also arouses a lot of

9:02:03 | political emotions and also among lawyers and experts it is very strongly

9:02:09 | raised, also the withdrawal from the constitutional tribunal Three understudy judges change the status of the tribunal’s employees as state officials

9:02:18 | organizational changes changes in the functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal the basic purpose of the introductory bill is to bring into force

9:02:26 | the proposed act on the Constitutional Tribunal, which is to take place 30 days from the date of publication of the introductory act in its individual

9:02:34 | articles, it is proposed to make changes to the relevant acts on performing the mandate of a deputy and senator, political parties, limiting the conduct

9:02:42 | of business activities by persons performing public functions and employees of courts and prosecutor’s offices, Ladies and Gentlemen, the Constitutional Tribunal

9:02:52 | is not an apparatus, which we are talking about here today, which is supposed to be dependent on politicians, but it is the Polish Constitutional Court, and we must realize that

9:03:01 | the matter is the Polish Constitutional Court as an organ of independent judiciary

9:03:07 | where judges are independent as a separate body, which results from our Constitution

9:03:12 | which is supposed to decide independently and is supposed to decide what is

9:03:18 | actually law in this general sense and what is not law its fundamental task is Sowa, the control of the constitutionality of law is

9:03:27 | the foundation in the creation of a democratic state of law. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. MP. I invite you, Ms. Katarzyna

9:03:37 | Uber club parliamentary left Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Member of the House, I have the pleasure

9:03:48 | to present to the state of the left club in the matter of the parliamentary bill of the TRB

9:03:53 | contained in the parliamentary bill no. 253 and the parliamentary bill on the provisions

9:03:58 | introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal from bill no.

9:04:03 | 254. 8 years of right-wing prostitution are behind us. years of demolition of democracy are behind us,

9:04:12 | 8 years of the PiS state, a state in crisis, 8 years of fornication, 8 years of deadly sins

9:04:20 | against the rule of law, violation of the Constitution of this tribunal, hand-

9:04:26 | controlled justice system, politicized National Council of the Judiciary, dismantled higher education, privatized justice fund, prosecutor

9:04:35 | general and minister of justice in one person, but also hate and

9:04:40 | cronyism, nepotism, destabilization of the law, violation of the constitution, deformation

9:04:47 | of the justice system, all this is 8 years of the rule of law and justice

9:04:55 | . It started with an attack on the Constitutional Tribunal, the tribunal, which, under the leadership of the president of Przyłębska and with the understudy judges, became its own

9:05:05 | caricature, called a dummy, an amateur reconstruction group controlled by

9:05:11 | former politicians. PiS and President Kaczyński’s social discoveries, over the years, Julia’s actions at Przyłębska Mariusz Muszyński, Krystyna Pawłowicz

9:05:20 | and Stanisław Piotrowicz destroyed the legitimacy of the Constitutional Tribunal,

9:05:26 | a tribunal that was supposed to guard the Constitution, but guarded the position of the Constitutional state of PiS, which instead of protecting the goods of citizens and

9:05:34 | citizens, protected party interests and governments. PiS created post

9:05:41 | -constitutional institutions that did not represent the constitutional bodies, a ghost of bodies parasitizing on empty names, and it all started with

9:05:50 | the Constitutional Tribunal and its lack of judgments, the tribunal confirmed the

9:05:57 | PiS version and helped minimize image losses, it was used to

9:06:02 | legitimize the deformation of the judiciary, the tribunal approved

9:06:23 | the rules of procedure of the Sejm and Constitution. It was similar with the amendment to the Act on the Institute of

9:06:28 | National Remembrance, which caused an international scandal and crisis in Poland’s relations with Israel, the USA and Ukraine. The tribunal found the provisions

9:06:37 | unconstitutional and thus spared the minister the entire camp of the then ruling right wing some of the blasphemy. President Przyłębska herself violated the provisions of the Act

9:06:46 | on the Constitutional Tribunal. he manipulated the panels of judges so that

9:06:51 | key political cases were decided by judges elected by PiS , of course, the provision of Article 38 of the Act ordering the appointment of judges in

9:07:00 | alphabetical order provides for an exception to the rule in special cases, but the boards of President Przyłębska, as well as the entire PiS governments,

9:07:10 | the exception has become the rule, all this contributed to to a sad pose The constitutional

9:07:15 | image of the PiS state whose rule was created by post-constitutional institutions

9:07:21 | and a political farce in which understudies played judges and real citizens were forced to take part in the spectacle when in

9:07:30 | fact they were deprived of constitutional guarantees for impartial consideration of their cases, painlessly experienced my also the same

9:07:40 | with the verdict on women in October 2020, issued on political

9:07:45 | orders from Nowogrodzka, the dramatic consequences of which

9:07:51 | we still suffer every day, and every

9:07:57 | day of bad law being in force is another day too long today we have

9:08:03 | a faulty Constitutional Court that constantly violates our own law and constitution, but also today, with these laws,

9:08:12 | we are taking steps to erase further sins of the previous government, sins

9:08:18 | against democracy and the rule of law, we are also repaying the debt of obligations

9:08:24 | they incurred by winning the elections and creating a common coalition government.

9:08:29 | October 15 is another element of the package of healing solutions. The Constitutional Tribunal is another step towards difficult path to restoring the rule of law

9:08:39 | restoring normality, restoring the sense of security in our country, is

9:08:45 | finally and finally taking the Polish tribunal away from politicians and restoring

9:08:51 | the independence of the Polish constitutional court. The left supports and requests the adoption of this submission. Thank you.

9:09:03 | Thank you very much, Mrs. MP, I invite you, Mr. Michał, to the parliamentary club,

9:09:12 | Confederation, Mr. Speaker, Honorable Chamber, we have to start,

9:09:23 | Constitutional Tribunal this is how PiS has led to the fact that instead of an institution, as for many years, an institution endowed with enormous

9:09:32 | authority and public trust, we do not have a functioning Constitutional Tribunal today, this final instance of the Polish

9:09:41 | rule of law, and with this in mind, we must also clearly say that what

9:09:46 | you propose to do with these bills is a cure. worse than

9:09:51 | the disease cured by this medicine Let’s start with the obvious, the very idea of repealing the judgments of

9:10:02 | the Constitutional Tribunal by statute is clearly completely illegal and

9:10:08 | this is not the path to healing the Polish justice system and the Polish Constitutional order, but if we take

9:10:17 | seriously what many of your politicians have said for years, so this means that this tribunal does not exist, that these judgments are simply not in the legal order because

9:10:26 | they were issued illegally, if it were to be applied consistently, this is something you can disagree with. I don’t agree, but at least it has some

9:10:35 | logical meaning, some internal meaning. consistency, a view that can be respected, with which

9:10:40 | one can discuss And this Unfortunately, this Act is not included in the acts in the provisions

9:10:45 | introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal, instead of consistently adopting one line either that the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal

9:10:53 | exist or that these judgments do not exist, we have a division of the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal into two categories and in article si you chose

9:11:02 | categories that you do not like and that you consider invalid, non-existent and to be repealed through the non-existent competences of the Sejm, and in

9:11:12 | article 8 you already list those categories that do exist, why not Let them remain even if they were issued by these judges to whom

9:11:20 | you deny the value of being Constitutional judges, this is not only

9:11:26 | illegal, it is, above all, illogical at an elementary level.

9:11:32 | If in any sense the Constitutional Tribunal was a legally existing

9:11:37 | Constitutional Tribunal, the Sejm has no competence to repeal even some of

9:11:43 | the judgments of this Tribunal, and if the Constitutional Tribunal did not exist so there was no

9:11:53 | beginning to the end in any sense, then all the judgments of this tribunal are non-existent and it is not possible to state by law that some of these judgments and judgments remain in

9:12:01 | force and let it remain, but this is not even the most obvious contradiction, the most obvious lack of logic in

9:12:10 | the provisions you propose Poles because the most obvious contradiction in the Bodnar package exists between the laws that are being

9:12:21 | debated today, presented an integral integral part of the package, and the same provisions

9:12:30 | that are intended to collectively heal the Polish justice system, and I mean specifically what is going on in both projects is that the choice judges

9:12:42 | of the Constitutional Tribunal are to be elected by a majority of 35, a 35 majority of the Sejm is a dob kowan,

9:12:53 | which has some hallmarks of a cross-party consensus, but the stairs

9:12:59 | start when we go deeper into the analysis of these provisions. Because the bill they proposed to the Sejm today says that if

9:13:08 | the election cannot be made by this majority of 35 the judge of the Constitutional Tribunal,

9:13:14 | the previous one, remains in his position until the election of

9:13:20 | a new judge can be made, i.e. the term of office can be extended indefinitely by means of obstruction by the Sejm, this is

9:13:29 | a deeply flawed anti-democratic solution, while the constitutional amendment you are proposing has a different solution, namely if it fails

9:13:38 | to be elected by a majority of 35, then the Sejm can elect by an absolute majority at this point.

9:13:44 | That is, simply by the forces of the ruling coalition and this is also

9:13:50 | a wrong solution – anti-democratic vote. This makes this election by majority.

9:13:55 | 35 makes no sense because each majority simply

9:14:01 | waits it out, but above all, both of these wrong solutions are contradictory

9:14:08 | in the two draft laws that you want to pass through this Sejm and what

9:14:13 | is the plan, Mr. Minister, what is the plan, that we first adopt this bill which is on the agenda of the Sejm today, we are introducing one rule for electing

9:14:22 | these judges, work on amending the Constitution which, when it comes into force, will make the

9:14:29 | act we are working on today instantly unconstitutional Well, it simply doesn’t make any

9:14:39 | sense, are you from very proud of themselves and they repeated it many times today that

9:14:44 | the draft act on the Constitutional Tribunal and the regulatory

9:14:51 | prund is a source of pride, that they were unable to write their own laws, that you do not

9:14:57 | have your own lawyers but that you are waiting for what the Foundation financed

9:15:02 | by foreign sponsors in accordance with the will and expectations of these sponsors will be brought to your desks, but if they have already agreed to it, so that you are working on

9:15:13 | a project that will be brought to you by a foreign Foundation, you could at least read this project and see that there are obvious contradictions in it,

9:15:21 | blatant contradictions within this one act and contrary to

9:15:27 | what you have as a project changing the Constitution into a second course, yes, for the Polish Sejm, for Polish citizens, Mr. Speaker, Honorable Chamber,

9:15:37 | I’m going back to what I started with, yes, PiS destroyed the Constitutional Tribunal,

9:15:42 | PiS politicians should be held accountable for what they did to the Polish judiciary and

9:15:47 | the mistakes they committed. The crimes they committed in the Polish justice system.

9:15:54 | repaired as soon as possible, but this bill is not the way to achieve it. What

9:16:00 | we got in these two draft laws that we are analyzing today is chaos without almost the dictate of one side of the political dispute. The cure is worse than

9:16:12 | the disease. I am requesting the rejection of both bills. In the first reading,

9:16:23 | in writing or only orally. submitted Yes, thank you very much, I invite you, MP Grzegorz Braun, the Confederation parliamentary club, after what my

9:16:31 | distinguished colleague Michał Wawer said, you are still sitting here, Mr.

9:16:37 | Minister, did you not fall on the floor of the government tram out of shock? Well, I’m surprised,

9:16:44 | I’m surprised, but Ladies and Gentlemen, it really is a comedy, what they presented here, I think

9:16:53 | that greater honesty would be better in this situation. If two tables

9:17:00 | of Moses were presented here, on one there would be a list of right judges and on

9:17:06 | the other there would be a list of wrong judges, a book with right judgments

9:17:11 | and a book with wrong judgments according to the Will revealed by

9:17:17 | the minister, whose Will it actually is Batory Foundation, Mr. Minister, when ZM,

9:17:24 | if you really wanted to deal with serious matters,

9:17:29 | the Act on Foreign Agents was already lying before us on some parliamentary committee, serious

9:17:36 | countries, real imperialists, have such legislation, Americans have it, and

9:17:42 | Muscovites have it, Acts on Foreign Agents, and the Batory Foundation like

9:17:48 | a glove. Write out and paint. falls under such legislation

9:17:53 | and then at least it would be a game of open cards very well. It sounds like what I am reporting here

9:18:02 | Dear colleagues, in reverse order I am reporting

9:18:08 | the reasons why you want to limit the constitutional rights of citizens

9:18:15 | arbitrarily distinguished categories, not only of right and wrong judges but also

9:18:25 | of citizens Why is there a four-year grace period for active participation in politics

9:18:31 | ? It sounds good, I say, but it is very populist. Who is a Pole who has not publicly shown any interest in politics for four years?

9:18:40 | Who is a Pole who wants to act in public but has not

9:18:48 | demonstrated in any way his/her interest in public affairs? This

9:18:54 | is apparently the case. a positive recommendation, from my point of view, a

9:19:00 | very doubtful recommendation. And even if we assume that

9:19:07 | constitutional rights can be limited by law, then I repeat: Why 4 years Why not 3 I5 Why not 7 or

9:19:13 | maybe you dream of getting a Piast Kołodziej to join this Constitutional Tribunal? the truth untainted Pol

9:19:23 | detached from the plow and let him think it’s not a fiction, the mafia, the services and the lodges will be there

9:19:29 | midwives of such candidates, then it will

9:19:36 | be very easy for him to sit in the Constitutional Tribunal because he will meet these criteria, some godfather whose name even the public does not know, but

9:19:43 | he is an expert who is so non-partisan, untainted by active involvement in politics,

9:19:50 | an expert of the Batory Foundation will be in the Constitutional Tribunal and one more

9:19:56 | note why why are you elevating this Constitutional Tribunal to the rank of

9:20:03 | some supreme sanctity of Polish public life, Polish

9:20:08 | statehood, some central keystone? I, of course, agree that it is very important and, in a sense, crucial, what this Tribunal has done,

9:20:18 | will do, but let’s remember where the legs grow from, where the legs grow from. the roots where

9:20:24 | the sources beat where the sources of this legislation beat, this legislation that

9:20:32 | gave us this entity that is the

9:20:37 | constitutional tribunal well, these springs beat where the beating heart of the party is not yet the idols of the PZPR, that is, during martial law in 1982 What is the intuition of

9:20:50 | Jaruzelski’s generals? And Cz Kiszczak said that if he found a political transformation, it would be necessary to dismantle the total system a bit

9:21:00 | , but in such a way that everything would work equally and collide, and to control it with other methods. It seems that only in the mid-1980s

9:21:11 | did the Constitutional Tribunal enter the operational phase, but I repeat. this is not sacred and here I will have a question for the minister whether such

9:21:20 | a concept was considered at all, so that if this is such a Gordian knot, instead of hitting this knot with

9:21:29 | your party hammer, because it does not cut this knot at all, it simply accumulates further doubts, generates further problems with which we will

9:21:40 | sooner or later end up in some tribunals, why not

9:21:45 | close this business at all, why not close this chapter of history which, I repeat, does not start at all beautifully because it starts in the darkness of martial law

9:21:56 | and why shouldn’t the Constitutional Tribunal do what it does? Some

9:22:02 | chamber of the Supreme Court where at least we will not get into problems

9:22:08 | by creating a specialized dedicated law of lawlessness that

9:22:14 | will select these judges, at least we will know where these judges came from in the Supreme Court and what criteria they are subject to, that

9:22:25 | would be my question to the minister and

9:22:30 | one more I have the impression that it is a certain fiction,

9:22:52 | after all, since you go to Brussels for guidelines and you started your term of office by boasting and publicly advertising that

9:23:03 | you and the commissioner are determining how we will restore the rule of law in the Republic of Poland, so on the one hand, you are publicly declaring that

9:23:14 | the law enacted here in the high chamber is important to you as long as it is

9:23:23 | the norms of the Euro-kolkhoz and, on the other hand, you spread

9:23:29 | the vision of your own formation to the Polish nation, riding here on a white

9:23:34 | humpback horse as defenders of Law and Justice. I will repeat after my

9:23:41 | colleague, Law and Justice, these the words were turned into mockery by

9:23:47 | the formation of the united lie of the right which sat here in the government tram in front of you,

9:23:53 | Minister Attorney General. But don’t continue this

9:23:59 | practice and don’t continue the operetta of the rule of law in a country

9:24:06 | where what you really want is to tighten the reins to have

9:24:11 | all the wrenches to tighten the screws to suit you And to you, that means

9:24:18 | Commissioner Eurokolkhoz new whose subcontractors

9:24:24 | Thank you very much thank you very much, Mr. MP , I invite you to speak. Mr. Jarosław Sachajko, parliamentary group,

9:24:32 | kukis 15, Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber, I am surprised that my colleague will speak

9:24:39 | for the first time finished ahead of time, but I would like to thank Mr. Bruno for

9:24:45 | reminding the genesis of the creation of the Constitutional Tribunal, which was intended by

9:24:51 | the communists to prevent anything from happening to them, but since then many years have passed in the judiciary, we have new, ambitious,

9:25:01 | law-abiding judges. Therefore

9:25:06 | , a little peace over what is happening, but

9:25:11 | the ruling Coalition is debating

9:25:24 | what is compatible with it or not, protecting our civil liberties and

9:25:30 | maintaining the legal order, of course, in its history The Constitutional Tribunal made mistakes, for

9:25:39 | example when it approved the nationalization of our money collected in OFE, later there were also numerous mistakes that some politicians did not like

9:25:51 | in the public opinion, but no one thought of firing all the judges, no one thought of interfering with

9:26:01 | the president’s prerogatives, so what do you

9:26:06 | want to do with this act, do you want to violate the basic principles of the existence of a democratic state and the separation of powers? for the first time since 1989, a

9:26:17 | political conflict is destroying the systemic rules because you think you can do anything

9:26:24 | . Wiś. The ruling coalition, there will be more governments after you, and when now you destroy

9:26:30 | the order. The constitutional one will give the state tools for subsequent governments to

9:26:35 | act in the same way, leading to even greater chaos and even greater lawlessness. I am a supporter of changing the Constitution. Let’s change it. Let’s write

9:26:45 | a new constitution and submit it to the PJ for evaluation. Citizens

9:26:50 | if the constitution is respected,

9:26:56 | so far it has always been the case that each new team changed the law often. they wave it

9:27:03 | , bending it, but always within the limits of applicable

9:27:08 | law. Professor of the University of Warsaw, Marcin Matczak, who for

9:27:14 | years criticized Law and Justice after the state won the elections on December 8, days before the next oath,

9:27:24 | aired on the radio with a roll call to respect the Constitution, laws, not to shorten

9:27:29 | the term of office, not to use revanchism and triumphalism he said to

9:27:34 | protect the stability of the institution first of all, maybe you will be convinced by an example from almost 100 years ago, an example from the USA when the then

9:27:48 | president of our Supreme Court and the Constitutional Tribunal in 1936,

9:27:57 | President Franko Roosevelt thought that he would increase the number of

9:28:04 | judges of the Supreme Court Tribunal because at that time

9:28:11 | they had a huge advantage in the Supreme Court. the Republicans even took steps to do so, he prepared a law to increase

9:28:23 | the number of judges of the Supreme Court, to have this majority, so that his newal, i.e. his

9:28:29 | idea to change the law, would go against the American

9:28:34 | constitution, you know what, then the Democrats, who had a huge advantage,

9:28:40 | stopped their president, said that the law must be obeyed,

9:28:46 | they said that if the Supreme Court is called at this moment,

9:28:52 | another government will come that will also do it and the United States

9:28:57 | will fall. Your Honors, if in the United States they could do it, what are the Poles worse at?

9:29:02 | A nation that had the second constitution in the world not much later than

9:29:10 | the constitution of the United States, the ruling majority I once again appeal for restraint

9:29:23 | because such behavior will weaken Poland in the international arena and

9:29:30 | historical times come to mind. The 18th century comes to mind. When also the devastation

9:29:37 | of law, which led to the fall of Poland, I appeal for changing the Constitution and

9:29:44 | respecting it, but until then, please take a moment to

9:29:52 | greet and greet the students. high school n 13 from Wrocław who came to the Sejm

9:29:58 | at the invitation of MP Izabela Bodnar. I welcome you warmly, despite

9:30:04 | the late hour. I think you will have good memories from the trip to the Sejm, and

9:30:10 | I think that in the future, maybe some of you will become interested in politics and sit on these benches. so enjoy your visit and pleasant impressions. This is

9:30:20 | the end of the discussion. I set a time for it for one minute and close the list of MPs. Does anyone else want to register to

9:30:28 | vote? I don’t see it. I close the list. I invite you to be the first to vote. MP

9:30:34 | Grzegorz Braun will take the floor, parliamentary club,

9:30:43 | Confederation, Mr. Minister, when should I browse through

9:30:52 | made me wonder, you write there, but you and your ghosts from the Batory Foundation write I am quoting the

9:31:03 | Constitutional Tribunal in relation to this entity, the reality and legality of which

9:31:10 | they have been questioning for quite a few years, so it was a tribunal only for Julia

9:31:20 | Przyłębska. So why are you referring to the judgments at all? decisions of this tribunal or maybe it was the

9:31:30 | Constitutional Tribunal, I would gladly agree with the first diagnosis and I would scatter this and other societies to the four winds, but

9:31:39 | provided that they were aiming at some political solution, I have the impression that

9:31:45 | you are not proposing a solution and restoring the state of which

9:31:52 | you are declaring your demand here, you are simply carrying out a more hostile

9:31:59 | takeover of the Constitutional Tribunal Julia Julia Przyłębska I would like to ask you

9:32:09 | to succeed parliamentary club Poland 2050 TR, dear, I don’t see your MP, I invite you to speak. I hope

9:32:23 | you are the Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber. since 2016, the system of

9:32:31 | constitutional control of law in Poland has ceased to function properly, as this rostrum has already mentioned many times today, it started with the fact that

9:32:41 | three people appointed as judges started adjudicating in it in gross violation of the law, large editions of several hundred judgments were issued by

9:32:52 | the Human Rights Tribunal, which stated that the judgment issued with the participation of an

9:32:58 | unauthorized person is not a court decision within the meaning of Article s of the European

9:33:03 | Convention on Human Rights, the president of the constitutional tribunal was also incorrectly appointed, whose term of office ended even on the basis of

9:33:13 | the unconstitutional PiS Act, stubbornly clings to the president’s position, blocking an important path for citizens

9:33:23 | since 2016, ineffective and inefficient in matters ordinary citizens,

9:33:29 | however, the Constitutional Tribunal experienced a strange acceleration in matters important to PiS, the Tribunal turned into an assembly line of security measures issued without meeting

9:33:38 | the most basic premises, but that is the end of the social draft of the Act on the Tribunal, I will say with pride, developed together with experts from the Batory Foundation,

9:33:47 | restores the rule of law, assumes, among other things, greater transparency

9:33:55 | Thank you and also koal management instead of individual decisions of the president

9:34:00 | of the tribunal, thank you, I invite you, MP Małgorzata Gromadzka, parliamentary club, Civic Coalition, Dear Madam Speaker,

9:34:09 | Dear Minister, Honorable Minister, for 8 years, PiS has been destroying the values that Poland undertook to respect when joining the European Union, i.e.

9:34:19 | the rule of law and the independence of courts in judicial independence and

9:34:24 | independent issuing of judgments today Poles said stop to it. You would like

9:34:30 | the legal provisions you create to confirm that the Constitutional Tribunal, which is subservient to Novgorod, confirms that they are consistent with the constitution, but Poles

9:34:39 | said stop to it. You have destroyed the achievements of three decades of jurisprudence of the Constitutional Tribunal, which has become a permanent part of the Constitutional system

9:34:47 | of the Republic of Poland becoming imn but we will fix it

9:34:53 | The Polish Constitutional Tribunal must regain its rightful place in the European judicial system, therefore it is necessary to develop and adopt a

9:35:02 | new act on the Constitutional Tribunal so that on its basis the process of restoring the ability of the Constitutional Tribunal to properly

9:35:10 | implement its constitutional functions begins and tasks and rebuilding trust in the process of controlling the constitutionality of law in Poland, let’s restore security,

9:35:19 | the rule of law, certainty of trade, and millions of further financial resources from the Polish Communist Party

9:35:26 | that Poles really need. But above all, let’s restore the rule of law. Thank you, Mrs. MP, I invite you to speak. Mr. Jacek

9:35:34 | Karnowski, the parliamentary club, the Civic Coalition, Mr. Mar, will take the floor.

9:35:40 | Honorable Member of the Parliament, I wonder why there is no answer from anyone on the list, very much appreciated by

9:35:52 | at least one person who ran from their list, who pretends to be an independent and says that you need to maintain balance, Mr. Minister, I value this project

9:36:02 | primarily for two reasons, the first is that it was written by

9:36:09 | judges and non-governmental organizations by independent organizations and it is very sad to hear in this room how other Poles are being insulted because

9:36:20 | they work for their homeland,

9:36:27 | Poland, homeland Poland, how did you not know, Mr. MP, but for

9:36:33 | one more reason I really appreciate this project, because no MP will be

9:36:39 | able to to be a judge in one’s own case never again will the Constitutional Tribunal have a face

9:36:53 | calist odic Thank you bard Thank you very much Mr. MP I invite Mrs. Iwona

9:36:58 | Maria Kozłowska parliamentary club coalition Obywatelska Thank you very much Dear Mrs. Marshal High House Dear

9:37:07 | Minister, in my speech I would like to focus on the selection of judges of the Tribunal Constitutional candidate for judge, as the article says

9:37:16 | 17 of the PR car

9:37:22 | , of course, this part of the Act additionally indicates the obligation

9:37:27 | to have the qualifications required to hold the position of a judge of the Supreme Court or the Supreme Administrative Court. After talks and

9:37:35 | consultations with the legal community, I would like to draw attention to the circle of institutions authorized to nominate candidates for a judge of a

9:37:43 | constitutional tribunal and indicated in Article 18 of the project and the extension to include

9:37:48 | University representation, the rights of universities also have the opportunity

9:37:56 | to nominate candidates for a judge of the tribunal, especially rectors of universities authorized to award doctoral and habilitated doctor degrees

9:38:06 | in the discipline of law. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mrs. MP. I invite Mrs. Sylwia Bielawska, Parliamentary Club, Coalition Obywatelska, to speak.

9:38:16 | cracking , Minister, we can unfortunately compare a shattered mirror to a mirror whose

9:38:25 | battered fragments, unfortunately, only reflect reality but are unable to

9:38:31 | capture the whole truth and that is why the reconstruction of the tribunal is really like putting together small fragments into a whole, it requires precision, it requires knowledge and it requires

9:38:41 | skill to create an image of reality that is why we need not only new pieces, and therefore judges, but also a stable framework, i.e. legal

9:38:50 | regulations of procedures that will allow us to put together a coherent whole, just as

9:38:56 | a distorted mirror can lead to false interpretations, a malfunctioning tribunal can disturb our perception of truth

9:39:03 | and justice, challenges related to the reconstruction of the tribunal are not easy, but as the proverb says, after the storm

9:39:11 | there is always a day. Therefore, it is necessary to involve all political parties of civil society and social support

9:39:20 | for the reconstruction process, as well as to ensure that the new rebuilt tribunal will be independent, effective and accountable to the citizens.

9:39:30 | Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, I invite you to speak. The Deputy will take the floor. Bartosz romowicz parliamentary club Poland TR

9:39:38 | dear Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen , that these two projects could be passed,

9:39:51 | that we would simultaneously process the Constitution and look for a majority to change the Constitution. This is not

9:39:59 | subject to discussion, so Mr. Minister, I would like to ask at what stage is the project to change the Constitution? when can we expect the process

9:40:07 | of changing the Constitution to begin because, as we know, this process is quite complicated and a simple majority is not enough, so it is very important because our

9:40:14 | work in this chamber will be wasted If we do not change the Constitution, thank you very much, thank you very much, MP, I invite you to speak MP Klaudia Jachira

9:40:25 | parliamentary club Civic Coalition Madam Speaker The High Chamber in its current

9:40:31 | shape The Constitutional Tribunal is a bomb planted under democracy The task

9:40:36 | of the Constitutional Tribunal in its current form, despite its name,

9:40:42 | is not to protect but to destroy the state of law and the path to the dictatorship

9:40:47 | of Jarosław Kaczyński, its doubles sit there understudy of understudies understudies

9:40:52 | of understudies and cooks mediocre passive but faithful Pawłowicz Piotrowicz Przyłębska

9:40:59 | is a pathology of the justice system this pseudo tribunal has on its conscience women

9:41:04 | dying in Polish maternity wards That is why it is very good that this act on the Constitutional Tribunal and on the provisions

9:41:13 | introducing it has been created, which is finally able to heal these institutions will take it out of the clutches of the irresponsible and give it the necessary function of

9:41:26 | the guardian of the Constitution and that is what we are counting on. Thank you very much, MP, I invite you to speak.

9:41:32 | Mr. Franciszek Sterczewski, MP, parliamentary club,

9:41:39 | Civic Coalition, will speak. Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, High House, there are many reasons why the Constitutional Tribunal calls for a reset. Tribune. they are complaining

9:41:51 | because its current unconstitutional composition is destroying the legal system from the inside, as shown by the consequences of the so-called abortion judgment. Because women citizens

9:42:02 | have been demanding the rule of law for years, they deserve a real Constitutional Court because its president is a social discovery, Jarosław Kaczyński, but above

9:42:11 | all, because the Constitutional Tribunal adjudicates on real cases. important to us the involuntary achievement of the PiS years is a great civic lesson from which

9:42:21 | we all learned how important the tribunal is to us, how it used to work, how it should work, and if it doesn’t work after converting it to

9:42:30 | the PiS machine, it’s time to stop with verdicts based on party orders and bending the regulations to suit the political will. I’m glad. I am sure that we can finally start

9:42:40 | the process of restoring to Poles the tribunal which has been a trap of the institution in recent years and will once again be able to guard the rights and the Constitution. I thank

9:42:49 | Minister Adam Faculty for his work in this matter. Long live

9:42:55 | the Constitution and free courts, because they are the guarantor of true law and true

9:43:01 | justice Thank you Thank you very much I invite you to speak MP Paweł

9:43:07 | Jabłoński Law and Justice parliamentary club I don’t see your MP I invite you MP Małgorzata Pępek Koal parliamentary club

9:43:21 | meeting expectations, i.e. abandoning the principle of a single-person management of the tribunal by the president in favor of the principle

9:43:31 | of collegiality greater transparency of proceedings before the tribunal change system for selecting judges, ensuring the greatest possible apoliticality of candidates, or

9:43:42 | extending the scope of legitimacy of social organizations to initiate

9:43:47 | the process of reviewing the constitutionality of law, so all these are specifics

9:43:54 | that are necessary, long-awaited and wisely planned, PiS defends Julia Przyłębska,

9:44:02 | but there are no strong arguments, especially since the numbers do not lie 14

9:44:10 | judgments issued in 2022 proves that from the point of

9:44:15 | view of citizens, the Constitutional Tribunal is simply

9:44:22 | there to fix it and we will do it effectively because people must

9:44:27 | have the feeling that the state is working and solving their problems. Thank you very much. Thank you very much,

9:44:34 | MP. I invite you, MP Adrian Witczak club parliamentary Civic coalition

9:44:46 | Dear Madam Speaker, High House, the Constitutional Tribunal

9:44:52 | should be a guarantee of a democratic state of law, after eight years of

9:44:57 | populist rule, during which the Tribunal as a pillar

9:45:02 | of the rule of law was dismantled, we are faced with the challenge of restoring to it the features of

9:45:07 | an independent and independent body for controlling the constitutionality of law, in

9:45:13 | connection with the above it is the issues related to the rule of law that are different in

9:45:18 | this debate in all cases. I would like to raise in this debate another

9:45:24 | less obvious aspect of this act. In order for Poland to play its key role in the

9:45:31 | European Union, it must do its part to repair democratic institutions, including the Constitutional Tribunal, if not We will meet this

9:45:40 | challenge, in the face of great threats, including war on our eastern border,

9:45:46 | and understand our own security. In order for Poland to be able

9:45:51 | to convince the European Union’s partners to increase defense spending,

9:45:57 | it must convince them that we still belong to a large European

9:46:02 | family that shares the same democratic values as Let us have no illusions, the credibility

9:46:08 | in restoring democratic values can significantly affect our

9:46:14 | security, voting for restoring the rule of law in the Constitutional Tribunal is voting with the best understood Polish raison d’état and

9:46:24 | strengthening the authority of the Republic of Poland in the international arena, thank you

9:46:29 | very much, thank you very much, I invite MP Krystyna Skowrońska,

9:46:35 | coalition parliamentary club, to speak

9:46:42 | Civic Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, ladies and gentlemen, MPs,

9:46:48 | we Poles should care about an independent Constitutional Tribunal operating in accordance with the letter of the Constitution, we Poles should care about

9:46:59 | independent courts, we Poles should care about independent judges, this is

9:47:07 | the basis of the justice system. And what are we dealing with? Aberration PiS with

9:47:14 | the corruption of the Constitutional Tribunal, the corruption of the courts,

9:47:22 | the PiS started to destroy the Constitutional Tribunal, independent courts since

9:47:30 | 2016, we have no judges, we have no National Council of the Judiciary, they simply did everything to

9:47:40 | subordinate the judiciary to themselves And today, we need this independence

9:47:51 | , they said, What are the arguments in favor of the solutions

9:47:56 | submitted to the Sejm, Mr. Ministers, we, as reliable Righteous Poles, must

9:48:03 | restore the independence of the Constitutional Tribunal to you. I wish that

9:48:09 | you dealt with the judges’ haters, that’s what we care about and we care about success in this

9:48:14 | case, Poles care about the law being respected, I invite you to vote, ppl

9:48:21 | parliamentary club Poland TR dear Thank you very much, Mr. Marshal, Mr. Minister, Honorable Chamber, I don’t see any representative of PiS, probably

9:48:31 | they are all sitting in the tribune, the Tribunal Constitutional, which clearly shows the pathology that

9:48:41 | has appeared in the place of the Constitutional Tribunal since 2010. Ladies and Gentlemen, there is no

9:48:48 | doubt that this Act, in fact, these two Acts should be adopted, they aim to repair this important fuse in the system of protecting citizens

9:48:59 | against attempts by the authorities to repair this fuse . which is extremely important from the point of view of protecting citizens

9:49:07 | against the attempts of the authorities, but of course this is not everything, we had an act on the national register today, the Constitutional Tribunal, but Mr. Minister, there is

9:49:18 | also the issue of this third great project regarding the amendment of

9:49:24 | the Constitution. Mr. Minister, the situation is not entirely clear to me that the senate, despite quite a long time to process this project, despite

9:49:35 | the fact that the senate, I think in its wisdom, would certainly find time to

9:49:42 | process this project, has not done so yet. Do you know the answer to the question why the senate is still not in favor of this

9:49:50 | project? why didn’t it make it to the House of Representatives? Thank you very much. I invite you to speak. MP Witold Tumanowicz, the parliamentary club,

9:50:00 | Confederation, Madam Speaker, High House, Prime Minister, Minister, I’m sorry,

9:50:05 | it’s not good yet. Do you know the position of the Commissioner for Human Rights, Professor Marcin Wiącek, who points out that the proposed

9:50:13 | solutions are unconstitutional? I notice. that the opinions of the Confederation will probably not be

9:50:19 | binding on you. But I will read about the Ombudsman’s declaration of invalidity by operation of law of approximately 100 judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal and the recognition that

9:50:27 | the person in charge is not the president would lead to secondary unconstitutionality threatening legal certainty and the legal security

9:50:35 | of citizens, it would be a signal for future parliaments that the principles of independence and separateness of the judiciary, as well as the related principles of finality and

9:50:44 | universal binding force of the Constitutional Tribunal’s judgments may, in certain circumstances, be violated by preventing the repeal of the

9:50:54 | Constitutional Tribunal’s judgments and the deprivation of the office of the president of this body, of course, the opinion is much longer and you, as a former The Commissioner for Human Rights should

9:51:03 | read these opinions carefully, reflect and withdraw this unconstitutional project. Thank you,

9:51:08 | Mr. MP, I already thought that you would win the competition today, that you kept the time so perfectly, but you were very close,

9:51:17 | Mr. Jarosa 15, Madam Speaker, Mr. Minister, Honorable House, unfortunately I have to respond to

9:51:26 | the bullshit taunts of Mr. Karnowski, who has nothing to say because

9:51:35 | you can’t, wait a minute. And we can behave in a parliamentary way,

9:51:41 | it would be obvious to start with your colleague because it is you who is pointing out to me and not to your

9:51:47 | colleague who behaved exceptionally because I am dating a white red flag and

9:51:53 | he with an empty party heart, I ask questions and he delivers the striking acts here, I defended his colleague from having his immunity taken away when

9:52:02 | he was wearing a beautiful president. It is thanks to me that

9:52:07 | non-governmental organizations have one and a half percent and not Thanks to him, going further,

9:52:14 | Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to ask quite a similar question, I would like to ask a

9:52:20 | similar question, Mr. MP, ladies and gentlemen, I am asking you a really long day ahead of us, please allow the MP to speak. Thank you very much, Mr.

9:52:30 | Minister, what was just said by colleague Tumanowicz, you are currently opening Pandora’s Box, you are opening

9:52:38 | the gate to the next the devastation of law will begin the same as

9:52:46 | with the election of excess judges, another opportunity will be given

9:52:53 | to another majority to change

9:52:59 | constitutional law with a simple majority. What safeguards and possibilities do you see to prevent subsequent governments from trying to change individual institutions

9:53:10 | in the same way as the state currently does? constitutional thank you thank you This is the end of the questions. Minister

9:53:21 | Adam bn asked for the floor. Please, Mr.

9:53:31 | Minister. Dear Speaker, Honorable Members of the House.

9:53:38 | I would like to thank you very much for

9:53:47 | the TOZ or the Constitutional Tribunal and the provision

9:53:53 | and act introducing the Act on the Constitutional Tribunal. I would like to emphasize that this is a special and in its own way unusual project

9:54:04 | because it is a project that was prepared by a group of

9:54:09 | non-governmental organizations, these organizations have been working on this project for many long

9:54:14 | months. I think that using the phrase that these are ghost ritzy is at least unauthorized because it is a project that has gained

9:54:24 | the support of 48 organizations Non-governmental organizations and I would like to thank you very much for your commitment and intensive work on the project, what’s more, ladies and gentlemen, these

9:54:36 | solutions were the subject of numerous discussions, there were many expert meetings and seminars devoted to this

9:54:46 | project and some solutions were perhaps developed

9:54:51 | for months in the course of such good, decent legal reflection. that

9:54:58 | with such a pro-state involvement, that is, with such thinking on how to create solutions that, on the one hand, will

9:55:07 | strive to rectify the situation in the Constitutional Tribunal and, on the other hand, will be solutions that will create such a model method of operation

9:55:17 | of the Constitutional Tribunal and which will also be fixed various issues that

9:55:23 | are not only related to the current crisis, but also previously signaled, such as the selection of judges of the Tribunal so that they are

9:55:31 | really the best lawyers, such as this issue:

9:55:36 | Could politicians immediately after completing their functions, for example in Parliament become judges of the Constitutional Tribunal Constitutional Tribunal and various

9:55:45 | solutions that are introduced also regarding the relationship between the president of the Constitutional Tribunal and the general assembly or issues

9:55:53 | regarding disciplinary justice for Constitutional Tribunal judges, all of this is the result of these thoughts and actions and

9:56:06 | now Please note that this project is presented as a project parliamentary Thank you very much to the MPs for supporting this project, but of course it

9:56:16 | is a project that has the support of MPs who are associated with the ruling coalition,

9:56:22 | but this somehow influences the way of dealing with this

9:56:27 | project in a slightly different way than, for example, in the case of the Act on the National the council of the judiciary, whether there will soon be an amendment to the law on the system of

9:56:35 | common courts, the act on the Supreme Court, because in that case we are dealing with typical government projects, which means that they go through quite

9:56:43 | a long and thorough process of social consultations, as it happened and

9:56:49 | it is taking place as it was place in the case of the act on the national council of the judiciary, this is probably the best example from recent weeks and recent

9:56:57 | months, but with this project I expect that this discussion

9:57:03 | will take place in the parliament because it is a parliamentary project here I think it plays a key role in this respect the Justice and Human Rights Committee

9:57:12 | of the Sejm of the Republic of Poland and I think that all organizations and experts from the community interested in this project will have a chance to speak and, as

9:57:22 | the MP indicated, I think that this discussion is also needed with the Office of the Ombudsman with Professor Marcin Wiąz whose

9:57:30 | opinion I respect ii I notice that he may see a certain different approach to

9:57:38 | some solutions, put it this way, because we are

9:57:43 | professional lawyers, we simply decided in this project that since there are judgments issued with the participation of so-called double judges,

9:57:53 | we need to approach these judgments somehow and we decided that the statutory solution

9:57:58 | that is proposed in the introductory provisions is this approach, Professor Wiącek has a different opinion and I think that we simply need to

9:58:05 | meet, talk and think about how to approach this after the first reading, what final

9:58:15 | solution to adopt and I am counting on is that in these

9:58:21 | In the coming weeks, we will simply continue to discuss this bill. Another thing I would like to draw attention to is that this

9:58:28 | project should be treated as a major part of restoring

9:58:34 | the rule of law, and I think it is also interesting that we are also discussing this project on the same day when we discussed Pegasus. because although the issue of

9:58:43 | introducing proper supervision over the secret services is not what is included in these most important issues

9:58:51 | regarding restoring the rule of law, but for me it all comes down to the same thing – that we regain normal and proper

9:59:00 | functioning of the institutions of the Polish state, especially for those that are important from the point of view of observing civil rights,

9:59:08 | however, dear honorable Members of Parliament, I think that we should remember about this act, that these two acts,

9:59:18 | that they are included in this package of four legal acts and that the resolution

9:59:25 | on the Constitutional Tribunal has already been adopted A few weeks ago, but

9:59:32 | you are still here the MP pointed this out, we also have an act on amending the constitution,

9:59:39 | which is being processed by the Senate’s legislative committee. I talked just a few days ago with Senator Krzysztof Kwiatkowski, who

9:59:46 | is the head of the Senate’s legislative committee, and as far as I know, he intends to start working quite hard, but it is also about in the context of this change

9:59:57 | to the Constitution and the adoption of this Act in general, to involve various groups again and to carry out a specific consultation process. But for it to

10:00:04 | be complementary, I think it is very important

10:00:12 | to understand what the relationship is between the Act and the process of amending the Constitution in the context of this mode of

10:00:24 | electing judges, please note that in this bill amending

10:00:29 | the Constitution there is no proposal to make a majority change, i.e.

10:00:34 | this Constitutional provision remains the same, only a solution is introduced regarding the direct application of the Constitution and the solution is that

10:00:43 | these 4 years must pass, right, and if any MP has an irresistible desire

10:00:50 | to become a judge of the Constitutional Tribunal, it is not so much that he does not

10:00:55 | want to fulfill this will, but he must find another job for the 4 years between the end of his function as an MP and a possible application for a position in

10:01:04 | the Constitutional Tribunal. I think that there are various possibilities that one can do in life. You can run a law firm to lecture at universities, but there

10:01:14 | must be a grace period, but there are no modifications as to

10:01:22 | the method of appointment, with one exception, what is proposed in this act amending the constitution is the Constitutional Act, which assumes that if

10:01:31 | political parties they will agree on what they want to do Let’s even call it

10:01:37 | this way, the Constitutional reset, we will elect a new Constitutional Tribunal

10:01:43 | by 3/5 and, what’s more, in such a way that

10:01:50 | the first three are elected, I’m sorry, the first five are elected for 3 years, the second five for 6 years years and the third five for 9 years, i.e.

10:01:59 | we are making such a jump in staffing so that it is not the case that

10:02:04 | everyone will start their term of office at one time and will end their term of office at the same time. However, the solutions that are in the Act regarding

10:02:12 | 35 are long-term solutions, independent of that constitutional change

10:02:18 | , yes, that change, that act amending the constitution will only have a one-time application, so you can call it a reset,

10:02:26 | so it’s quite complicated, but it was quite carefully thought out and there is no contradiction between this because a long-term

10:02:33 | statutory solution is one thing and another this is a one-off solution, I am making

10:02:38 | changes regarding this reset or restoring the normal

10:02:44 | functioning of the Constitutional Tribunal,

10:02:51 | dear Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Brown, he asked whether there were any

10:03:01 | other possibilities considered. The Chamber in the Supreme Court, such an idea appeared in the public legal debate more than once

10:03:10 | only from the point of view of our Constitution, it would require a more fundamental change, that is, it would require a complete reconstruction

10:03:18 | judicial institution in Poland, i.e. de facto abolition of the Constitutional Tribunal and the introduction of a chamber We decided that it was better to focus on

10:03:27 | repairing the Constitutional Tribunal But why on repair because we are proud of what the constitutional tribunal did in the years

10:03:39 | 1989-25 yes it was a good period I would even say the golden period of the Polish judiciary Constitutional Council I would like to emphasize that I may not agree

10:03:47 | with all the rulings because I would be unwise if I suddenly agreed with all the rulings, but I believe that it was a body at that time that

10:03:55 | enjoyed social authority and resolved many important issues of social life. And now the question arises whether or not. it is not better

10:04:04 | to look for a solution, perhaps to look for a long-term solution, even perhaps to give

10:04:09 | yourself a year, two or three years, but still to restore something that happened in Poland or perhaps to look for solutions that I have the impression are more

10:04:19 | in line with the model somewhere, whether it is the British one, where we have the Supreme Court or

10:04:25 | whether the American one, there is also a Supreme Court, but we have adopted

10:04:31 | the model that exists in most European countries, i.e. a separate

10:04:36 | Constitutional court, a separate Supreme Court, also a separate Supreme Court, an Administrative Court,

10:04:41 | and this model is present in most European countries and is also related to our political tradition. Regardless when the Constitutional Tribunal was established and

10:04:50 | here the MP mentioned the year 82 when this act was adopted,

10:04:57 | so it is not without reason that I say that the building of this real tribunal began in December 1989, when the principle of a

10:05:07 | democratic state of law was introduced into the constitution, right, it was this moment from the construction of which has begun, hence this solution,

10:05:17 | now quite an important question also regarding what

10:05:23 | to call the situation of the Constitutional Tribunal. Well, we have a situation where

10:05:28 | there is a Constitutional body and its activities have been assessed in a resolution that was adopted by the Sejm a few weeks ago, but this one the tribunal

10:05:38 | sometimes adjudicates in panels that are not consistent with human rights standards,

10:05:44 | these panels are simply adjudicated by people who are not authorized to adjudicate, which is confirmed, which has already been confirmed many times, which has been confirmed in some

10:05:52 | judgments of the European Court of Human Rights, and this is one of the additional arguments for us why we should move to repair the

10:06:01 | Constitutional Tribunal because its authority and its power of influence are also questioned and

10:06:06 | may be questioned. Mrs. Skowrońska said that I have to

10:06:16 | deal with judge haters, I think that these are important words, but I would like to say if

10:06:23 | we can talk about such a category at all. people like judges, haters, the only institution that can deal with them are the courts in Poland, no minister,

10:06:33 | yes, a minister can never declare something like that, that he will deal with anyone, the courts are there to straighten out such matters, so I would like it to

10:06:43 | be something like this said at the end if if I could, I would like to,

10:06:51 | Mr. MP. I’m sorry that I’m doing it once again, but I feel a deep, irresistible need to do it, Mr. MP. He often uses the word

10:06:59 | eurokolkhoz, criticizing everything that is European.

10:07:05 | Yes, okay, that’s what I hope. That’s what I have. I hope that in

10:07:12 | this criticism of everything that is European or related to European integration, the

10:07:21 | MP nevertheless appreciates the activities of the European Court of Human Rights in

10:07:27 | Strasbourg, whose jurisprudence the MP became the beneficiary of in 2014.

10:07:33 | The MP was then represented by the late Stefan Hambura in the Braun judgment

10:07:38 | v. Poland, and the Tribunal in Strasbourg, this

10:07:44 | European institution, however, stated that you should be compensated

10:07:50 | with PLN 8,000 in compensation, which was recognized because

10:07:59 | the tribunal found that there had been a violation of freedom of speech, plus PLN 3,000 in court costs

10:08:05 | and PLN 3,000 for having done so from Strasbourg. it came and why I am talking about it,

10:08:11 | not to remind important facts for public debate, because this is an important ruling from the point of view of shaping the standard of freedom of speech

10:08:20 | Freedom of opinion to express different views in public debate, but I am talking about this because the same European Court of Human Rights also

10:08:29 | commented 2 years ago on what you are saying about

10:08:35 | foreign agents. To this Russian act, agents, foreign agents. Not

10:08:40 | exactly the United States. They are not part of system of the European Convention on Human Rights, he commented in the case of Eens and Others v. Russia, stated that such

10:08:50 | laws violate the freedom of association. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Mr. Minister, after the representatives

10:09:00 | of the applicants, well. Thank you, MP Kamila Gasiuk Pichowicz,

10:09:05 | representative of the applicants. Thank you, Marshal. I also thank you. Minister

10:09:14 | of Justice, Professor Adam Bodnar, for answering

10:09:20 | numerous questions. Let me start with a comment regarding the absence of representatives of the Law and Justice party in this room. I have

10:09:29 | the distinct impression that this proves that they are simply not interested in the issue of the Constitutional Tribunal; the efficiency of its

10:09:37 | functioning is all that matters. about defending one’s own interests And this is exactly what

10:09:42 | the Constitutional Tribunal has been doing recently, issuing pseudo- securities in the cases of party colleagues. Thank you very much for all

10:09:53 | the substantive questions and for the substantive positions of the club in this discussion. However, I would like to particularly refer to one slightly

10:10:03 | less substantive and very populist one, namely the PiS MP

10:10:08 | made in his speech, I have the impression of such a projection of the thinking of the previous ruling majority about the Constitutional Tribunal,

10:10:18 | attributing to us and our projects features that these projects do not have at all,

10:10:23 | attributing to us the intentions that PiS was really guided by when

10:10:37 | devastated to the issue of the alleged dismissal of employees of the office

10:10:42 | of the Constitutional Tribunal, I want to say very clearly that it was PiS that abolished the professional staff

10:10:49 | at the Constitutional Tribunal and the projects we propose simply

10:10:55 | present a path to restoring the professionalism of the office’s employees, it

10:11:02 | was PiS appointees who kicked out of the constitutional tribunal people with enormous achievements, people who really had knowledge about

10:11:12 | how an independent tribunal with authority functions and employed them people

10:11:18 | from political offices of novice lawyers, in relation

10:11:23 | to the employment of employees of the Constitutional Tribunal office, we are introducing instruments of substantive verification and I understand that they are

10:11:32 | alien to PiS politicians, so I am not even surprised that they did not understand what

10:11:37 | the act was talking about in this respect, it was PiS that led until the tribunal collapses, I will tell you about one number: in 2022, the tribunal issued

10:11:49 | 14 judgments And that was the least in 24 years and the least since

10:11:55 | Mrs. Przyłębska took over as president, year by year under

10:12:02 | the rule of PiS, the tribunal issued fewer and fewer judgments. the substantive facts here cannot

10:12:08 | be distorted in any way by statistics, this proves to one that this institution

10:12:13 | has been absolutely deprived of any social trust, in fact, no one trusts this institution anymore, no one wants to send any complaints

10:12:22 | or requests to it, neither citizens nor the court, but there is one group that very willingly

10:12:28 | takes advantage of this 15 PiS nominees. These are PiS politicians who are sending

10:12:35 | applications there forcefully, the tribunal changed its function under their rule, they turned it into

10:12:41 | a laundromat of dirty laws, they sent neither the constitutional bill, it came back clean, clean

10:12:46 | by Mrs. Przyłęsko, they turned the tribunal into a political byp

10:12:52 | when they lacked majority to adopt the most barbaric ideas here in the Sejm,

10:12:57 | such as a total ban on abortion, which led to the death of several women in Poland, today, on

10:13:06 | the other hand, PiS supporters want to treat the tribunal as a body that hands out amnesty to the right and left,

10:13:12 | this for the Glapin stand-up and now for political sowing

10:13:20 | . positions of disciplinary prosecutors who persecuted judges, PiS politicians now think that the Constitutional Tribunal is our

10:13:28 | last resort, but they are wrong Ladies and Gentlemen, because the tribunal is not responsible for

10:13:34 | adjudicating whether someone has broken the law or not the law in force at a given time the tribunal really already fulfilled all functions. Punk, it was a transmission belt for the current

10:13:45 | of dirty laws, as I said, now apparently they want it to be for PiS colleagues, it will not be there because it is itself tainted with lawlessness. Referring to

10:13:55 | the statement of the PiS MP, I want to say very clearly that PiS has destroyed the independence of judges and destroyed it by way of resolutions of the Sejm, deciding

10:14:05 | that the three duly elected judges of the Constitutional Tribunal

10:14:11 | are not these judges, and in their place, by means of resolutions, also appointing party

10:14:17 | nominees whose only advantage was that they had the recommendations of President Kaczyński, the projects that we presented, they restore

10:14:26 | the guarantee of professionalism, the guarantee of independence, among others through a transparent procedure for selecting judges I would like to remind you that here One of the rules

10:14:36 | assumes a public hearing, a very good standard, by introducing

10:14:42 | this standard of a four-year term of office for politicians, there was something wrong

10:14:48 | with the fact that the parliamentary bench could be placed in the judge’s chair in

10:14:53 | the Constitutional Tribunal, then PiS, finally, and more specifically the prime minister and the government

10:15:01 | arbitrarily decided which judgments were judgments and which judgments could be published and which

10:15:07 | judgments could not be published, after all, for hundreds of days, Prime Minister Szydło

10:15:14 | refused to publish specific judgments that were inconvenient for the then ruling government,

10:15:20 | and this project aims to remove from the legal order only

10:15:26 | those decisions that in the legal sense they do not exist they are called so- called Non-existent judgments because they were issued with the participation of people who

10:15:36 | are not judges and here the legal standard here the judgment we are referring to is the judgment issued in the case of xeroflor against Poland by

10:15:44 | the European Court of Human Rights and these decisions about it which

10:15:49 | judgments which judgments are these judgments that do not actually exist

10:15:54 | a long time ago, this act was passed only to put it in order only to put in order the legal order in this respect, after all, it was PiS that incited

10:16:03 | the obliging tribunal to issue such judgments that deprived citizens of their

10:16:09 | basic rights I mean the abortion judgment here, so absolutely it is impossible to agree with the thesis of the PiS MP that we are depriving

10:16:18 | citizens of any rights with the projects, what’s more, in this regard, these

10:16:24 | non-existent judgments or the failure to recognize the legal effects of judgments issued with

10:16:29 | the participation of doubles, I would like to emphasize that

10:16:35 | citizens’ rights in this area will also be protected by a horizontal act which will prevent negative for citizens of citizens, the consequences of finding that

10:16:45 | these judgments have no legal force, the double of the obligations on the part of

10:16:52 | the Ministry here will be worked out soon, when the PiS MP tries to talk about our projects, I subconsciously have the impression that he has described the work of destroying

10:17:02 | the tribunal by his party for the entire 8 years and our projects are just repairing

10:17:08 | the tribunal because it is is an obligation that results not only from the Polish Constitution

10:17:14 | but also from Poland’s membership in the rule of law Europe and in conclusion I would like

10:17:19 | to emphasize that today we really need to take care of Poland’s position in the European Union as strong as possible,

10:17:25 | we need to make sure that Europe

10:17:30 | speaks with one voice, is strong and united against

10:17:36 | Putin’s the foundation is the foundation of the rule of law and today anyone

10:17:42 | who destroys the rule of law, who does not agree to rebuild the rule of law,

10:17:48 | the independence of the Constitutional Tribunal or the National Council of the Judiciary, anyone who acts with the aim of conflict between Poland and the

10:17:57 | European Union and the destruction of the unity of the European Union, it must be said, is directly acting in Putin’s interests and actions related to the conflict with the European Union in a situation

10:18:07 | of war threat to Poland can really be called either

10:18:12 | stupidity or betrayal of the Polish cause – both actions are inexcusable in the current

10:18:18 | situation when a real cruel

10:18:24 | war is taking place behind our eastern border and the European Union is also one of the guarantors of our

10:18:29 | security, and when I listen to the speeches of right-wing politicians about the projects, sometimes I really have the impression that I am watching

10:18:39 | Russian television channels and in the mental sphere, in the sphere of hatred towards

10:18:45 | democracy, in the sphere of contempt for the separation of powers and the United

10:18:50 | Europe is really today, opposition politicians are very close to

10:18:56 | racist presenters or content from Sputnik today Poland must focus on European

10:19:03 | values and today Poland must strengthen these European values and

10:19:08 | right-wing politicians must understand and accept that Poles want to reject all

10:19:16 | Putin’s ideas,

10:19:22 | we are rebuilding a strong

10:19:28 | law-abiding Europe and that is what these projects are for. Thank you, Mrs. MP, I am inviting

10:19:35 | the representative of the applicants, Mr. Bartosz

10:19:42 | Romowicz, Dear Speaker, Mr. Minister, Mr. MP, Mr. MEPs,

10:19:47 | the MP has made a broad reference to what

10:19:53 | has been said here, so has the Minister, for which I thank you very much. I would like to draw attention to two aspects. Look. ladies and gentlemen, for this part of the debate on

10:20:05 | this project, one MP from both Law and Justice was registered,

10:20:12 | the rest did not come, the rest are not even interested in it, they are simply

10:20:17 | not there, Madam, please forgive one less parliamentary behavior, but I will take a photo as a souvenir of this part of the room if Let me

10:20:26 | show you this photo When we are in the second and third reading of this project and I will ask where the Law and Justice MPs were at

10:20:36 | 8 p.m. today When we are talking about an important project that is to

10:20:41 | restore constitutional order in Poland When is the thing

10:20:47 | we are actually fixing to be implemented? the issue is simply not there, they are simply not interested, and I am

10:20:52 | sure that in the third reading or in committees they will of course say how

10:20:58 | they are interested in what we want to spoil, let’s remember about it and let’s talk about it, and

10:21:03 | secondly, I would also like to refer to the member elected from letters of the Law and

10:21:09 | Justice MP from Sachajka who said that he has a white and red flag in his lapel, of course I agree, Mrs. No. I don’t have it in my heart because

10:21:21 | today those who wear flags in their lapel often forget that Poland is not just

10:21:26 | a badge in the jacket. Poland begins, among other things, from the

10:21:32 | Constitutional Tribunal from the National Council of the Judiciary from other institutions that are supposed to ensure

10:21:37 | that Poland is a country governed by the law, that we are a country that counts in the European Union and in the world, at which no one laughs and

10:21:43 | no one laughs at the seriousness of the Polish bodies of Justice and wearing a white and red flag in your lapel, Mr. President, it’s a great thing for photos. It looks great

10:21:54 | on Twitter and Facebook everywhere, but that’s not what it’s all about, it’s about having Poland in your heart, and having Poland in your heart, you have to have Poland in your heart.

10:22:03 | also the rule of law in Poland and the rule of law is a constitutional tribunal When I went to law school, I always had this

10:22:12 | idea of the Constitutional Tribunal that it was an institution that defended something great, that defended the rule of law, when it resolved cases of

10:22:20 | constitutional law, I knew that what was there were authorities. law in

10:22:25 | the second year of law, a law student knew that there are people

10:22:31 | who, with their life experience, education and hundreds of publications and speeches, testify for this body, for this

10:22:40 | institution, and what the rule of Law and Justice will lead to, that mediocre

10:22:45 | politicians, passive politicians, but government officials to pursue

10:22:54 | their interests Law and Justice right there. I think it was a preparation for this, ladies and gentlemen, that they knew that one day they would lose power, but they also knew that

10:23:03 | they would lose one government and that other bodies would use the TR Consts to maintain power and

10:23:10 | this is confirmed bye. C. I will finish it for the applicants, but once again I am

10:23:21 | appealing to all MPs, especially Law and Justice, if you don’t want to help, don’t bother us, as a coalition,

10:23:30 | a coalition of a democratic party for which democracy and rights have always been very important, we want to fix what has been broken for 8 years and thanks to the

10:23:39 | minister. Thanks to his officials. Thanks. the experience of all the people who worked on this project, and a lot of people worked on it, not only people in

10:23:49 | the government but also non-governmental bodies, we will do it and I hope that no one,

10:23:54 | especially one person, the most important person in the country, will not disturb us in this, thank you very much, thank you very much,

10:24:04 | Mr. the MP has a correction

10:24:12 | minute Dear Madam Speaker, the Minister mentioned my

10:24:17 | name several times, but because of all

10:24:26 | the deep mistakes in which, with all due respect, the Minister and his

10:24:33 | supporters here are stuck, who really have no

10:24:38 | arguments and that is why most often, when there is nothing left to say, there is nothing left to say

10:24:45 | . either women’s hell or reduction Putin yes and this should be enough as

10:24:50 | an argument, so all these obscene and disgusting mistakes, Mr. Minister,

10:24:57 | Mr. Minister, which you have fallen into. I would like to emphasize this one, please do not equate Europe with Euro-kolkhozes, please do not equate this

10:25:08 | harmful, total murderous political project with beauty.

10:25:16 | historical reality Thank you, Mr. Thank you very much, Mr. MP. Thank you very much, Mr. Mr.

10:25:25 | Yes, because we agreed for a minute, I am keeping my agreements,

10:25:31 | I am asking you

10:25:38 | to keep your floor, Mr. MP. I would like to introduce a formal motion, I have introduced a motion to change the manner of conducting,

10:25:48 | you are at the end of the discussion, Mr. will report after the end of this discussion,

10:25:54 | fine Mr. Please sit down. Please sit down, Mr. MP. It turns out that applying

10:26:02 | the dignity of the Sejm is preventing you from expressing your views. We agreed,

10:26:09 | you asked. I gave you a minute. Turning off the microphone after a minute and a half is quite normal. I asked you to fit in a minute. Thank you

10:26:20 | very much, Mr. Do n’t

10:26:30 | carry the piece of paper anymore, I’m closing the discussion in the discussion. A motion to cancel was submitted in

10:26:40 | the first C. rejection. In the first reading of the draft Acts contained in forms 253 and 253,

10:26:48 | we will start voting on these motions in a block of votes. Thank you very much to everyone who spent this time long and this

10:26:59 | discussion Thank you very much for maintaining, with a few exceptions, the dignity and seriousness of the Sejm.

10:27:06 | Thank you, Minister. Thank you to all the MPs from the right, left and

10:27:11 | center for helping us reach the end of this difficult project.

10:27:16 | Indeed, more people, but I think that all interested parties had time. opportunity to take your position and speak

10:27:25 | Thank you very much, let’s move on to the next one Thank you very much, we’ll start considering point 1 of the agenda:

10:27:34 | the report of the social and family policy committee on the government’s bill on amending the act on family support and the

10:27:42 | foster care system and the act on employment promotion and labor market institutions roads no. 293 and 312, I am asking Mrs. Katarzyna Uber to present

10:27:53 | the committee’s report. I am asking Mrs. MP, Mrs. Marshal, Mrs. Minister. I am

10:28:04 | pleased to present a report on the work of the social and family policy committee devoted to work on the government bill amending the act on

10:28:12 | family support and the care system. substitute act and the Act on the promotion of employment of the Insty, included in the Sejm document no.

10:28:21 | 293, the Speaker of the Sejm, in accordance with Article 37, paragraph 1 and Article 40, paragraph 1,

10:28:28 | of the Rules of Procedure of the Sejm, on April 9, 2024, referred the above draft

10:28:33 | bill to the Social Policy and Family Committee for first reading.

10:28:39 | and families, at the meeting on April 23, 2024, conducted the first reading and considered

10:28:50 | the draft. One amendment was submitted to the editorial office and the draft together with the amendments was

10:28:59 | adopted unanimously by the CZK members of the committee. In connection with the above, the committee requests that the High Sejm please adopt the submitted bill.

10:29:09 | Thank you. Thank you very much, Mrs. MP today

10:29:18 | oad name of the group I am opening the discussion Please, MP Magdalena Filipek

10:29:26 | Sobczak Law and Justice parliamentary club Dear Madam Speaker, High

10:29:34 | House, I have the honor to present, on behalf of the Law and Justice club,

10:29:40 | the position on the government project to provide support for the family and the

10:29:46 | foster care system and the act on employment promotion and labor market institutions,

10:29:52 | a draft bill has been sent to the second reading, which is far from being a comprehensive regulation, today’s amendment is a

10:30:02 | full one-page result of almost half a year of effort by the Ministry of Family,

10:30:07 | Labor and Social Policy, operating under the new management.

10:30:12 | yes, ladies and gentlemen, the new government needed so much time to make a simple technical change, on the one hand, we can be happy that the rich

10:30:22 | achievements of our predecessors in this field have been respected, on the other hand, it is worth asking

10:30:28 | why we have waited so long for such an important change, the government of the united right

10:30:34 | has repeatedly initiated actions to improve the situation foster families and the deinstitutionalization of the foster care system, as recently as

10:30:44 | a year ago, a significant amendment came into force, including an increase

10:30:49 | in the remuneration for professional foster families and

10:30:55 | those running family children’s homes from PLN

10:31:01 | 2,876 to PLN 4,100. Significant changes also concerned families

10:31:08 | acting as family emergency services. the salaries in question from that

10:31:14 | moment on are indexed according to the inflation rate, a fundamental change in the entire system was the introduction of a fundamental ban

10:31:23 | on the creation of new care and educational facilities of the socialization, intervention and specialist-therapeutic type

10:31:32 | . I would like to remind you once again that, full of determination, we started to change the logic of the functioning of the foster care system for the benefit of everyone child was

10:31:42 | the obvious basis for all our actions,

10:31:48 | the remuneration of foster families by the government of the United Right in the recent period is an indisputable fact, by the way. I would add that the government

10:31:58 | of the United Right, by introducing the first 500 plus program, then 800

10:32:05 | plus, initiated a revolution that restored the dignity of the family because it is

10:32:12 | the safety and well-being of the family that is the most important thing. other programs with the family in mind, including toddler plus

10:32:21 | family care capital, however, moving on to the project in question, it is worth noting that it is clear to everyone in this chamber that

10:32:31 | the issue of foster care remains outside the spectrum of political dispute, the discussed

10:32:37 | legislative proposal consisting in increasing the limit of funds allocated for co-financing from the fund work of the district’s own tasks in

10:32:46 | the field of supporting the substitute system is undeniably necessary, however, it is worth noting that in the realities of the new government, it is

10:32:57 | only a promise that the government will easily be able to abandon, just like

10:33:02 | the famous 100 specifics, an increase in the statutory maximum limit in the absence of clear declarations How much funds

10:33:11 | will be allocated for allowances for foster families may be an announcement without any basis,

10:33:21 | keep ZEM facts to what is tangible and real is

10:33:26 | the increase in the cost of living of every Polish family caused by the introduction of at least

10:33:33 | a 5.00 watt rate for food or also the imminent end of the inflation shield

10:33:39 | for energy about this

10:33:49 | exception government programs introducing tasks introducing the assumed amendment,

10:33:56 | modifications, calculations should already be ready, indicating that the new limit in

10:34:03 | 2024 will start operating only from the second half of the year, they must raise

10:34:09 | concern, the Law and Justice club is checking.

10:34:21 | To sum up, and guided by the social interest and concern for the

10:34:26 | financial situation of foster families, the Law and Justice club supports the submitted form

10:34:33 | 293 legislative proposal, at the same time make sure that

10:34:40 | the programs required to pay the subsidy are created as soon as possible Izzy

10:34:48 | opj, Mrs. MP. I invite you, Mrs. Monika Rosa, parliamentary club,

10:35:01 | Civic coalition, Mrs. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, Your Honor, we know perfectly well that

10:35:07 | foster care is in crisis, in fact it is not just a crisis anymore, but it is this collapse is the result of recent years of powdering the system by

10:35:18 | the government of law and justice, because of course the law we are talking about is only a matter or even a matter of money, but without

10:35:27 | money it is impossible to function, which we know perfectly well, and we also know perfectly well that work is being carried out in the ministry because no

10:35:36 | real work has not been done so far by the PiS government. We know

10:35:42 | perfectly well that the functioning of family courts drags on for years and

10:35:48 | the child is in limbo because he does not know whether he will go back to his biological family or maybe he will have a chance for happiness and adoption because

10:35:59 | being in suspension The foster family has no right to actually decide

10:36:04 | whether the child can undergo treatment or whether a child who often experiences trauma can go to a psychiatrist he can get medication this family has no right to decide about it

10:36:13 | because the courts keep the children in suspension and after three years, which is the average duration of proceedings before family courts, the child very often

10:36:21 | has no chance of adoption anymore foster care is in crisis because even if they are

10:36:26 | referrals from the court for the child to be placed in non- institutional foster care, there are no such foster families, foster care is in

10:36:36 | a diametric crisis why Because in recent years, these families have simply

10:36:41 | been created in very small numbers because these families have an average age that is above there should be why Because I care Ladies and Gentlemen, there

10:36:51 | is simply a crisis and we can pretend that the amendment you recommended will save foster care, unfortunately this is not the case, there is

10:36:59 | a huge challenge ahead of us to talk about foster families having employment contracts and

10:37:05 | not civil law contracts as is the case now it is about quicker access to doctors to

10:37:11 | care for children who often leave traumatic families for foster care, about how to improve the adoption process, about how the

10:37:19 | custody register you created should work. And if it works, should we talk about how to

10:37:25 | authorize the operation of family courts ozss Judging the functioning because the most important thing is that no child should grow up in

10:37:34 | an institution, every child has the right to a family, but the biological family, the parents

10:37:40 | are not the owner of the child, so we also have a reform of the Family and Guardianship Code, which is from 1956, which differs from what they need currently

10:37:49 | children in which the child is still the property of the parent because we are not talking about parental responsibility, we are talking about parental authority and

10:37:57 | you have not changed that either, so now beautiful words, beautiful speeches, what have you been doing for 8 years Thank you very much, Mrs. MP. I invite

10:38:08 | you, Mrs. Iwana Maria Kozłowska, coalition parliamentary club Civic Dear Madam Speaker, Honorable Chamber, Madam Minister, despite the beautiful things

10:38:18 | that the Law and Justice reporter has just presented to us,

10:38:24 | Unfortunately, these families are missing every year and for 8 years you have done little,

10:38:30 | you were not in the Sejm when we were working on the act on foster care, you are not creator of the act on foster care, I

10:38:38 | had the honor of working on this act since 2011 and I can

10:38:44 | say something about it. And according to the end of the year, there were

10:38:51 | 7,281 children in foster care, 70 of this number were in family foster care, most often

10:38:57 | the guardians of the child whose family biological is not able to provide proper care there are grandparents or older siblings You haven’t done anything about it

10:39:04 | we can ask ourselves why there are no willing families who have taken on the responsibility of raising a child who can no longer

10:39:13 | stay in the family home the child’s well-being happiness proper safety education love this is the most important thing that we, adults, should, or

10:39:22 | even must, provide for him. The Happy Kids Foundation conducted research which

10:39:27 | shows that 64% of the beneficiaries did not know and do not know the concept of

10:39:34 | foster parenting and foster care, and these concepts are often confused with the

10:39:46 | adoptive family. They were 20 years old and had the knowledge. What does the concept of foster care mean? What

10:39:53 | does foster parenthood mean? How does it differ from an adoptive family? When talking

10:39:58 | about financial issues that are very important for the decent functioning of foster families, social awareness of the important role played by the family is also fundamental.

10:40:06 | Family foster care should not be passed on to anyone who is in contact with children’s tragedies. it needs to be explained, that’s why we need to start very

10:40:16 | intensive and targeted educational and promotional campaigns and

10:40:21 | talk about it more and more often not only in the media but also in schools and universities. I would like to thank all the people who

10:40:29 | are working on changing the foster care act, especially Minister Aleksandra Gajewska and above all, all families

10:40:38 | of foster care and foster parenting who really perform this function

10:40:43 | very well, very well, very dignified, and pass on love to the children who They need love very much. Thank you very much. MP

10:40:52 | Ewa Szymanowska will speak. Parliamentary club Poland 2050 is the right way. Dear

10:40:57 | Speaker, Mrs. Minister. From the very beginning of its

10:41:04 | activity, Poland 2050 has been very closely associated with the topic of foster care. Therefore, we are very pleased that the government has decided to increase funds for

10:41:12 | remuneration of professional foster families is a step in the right direction, but there is still a lot to do in this matter. People who

10:41:21 | decided to create family orphanages, emergency care , family-type care and educational facilities are people with extraordinary empathy,

10:41:30 | sensitivity and a huge heart because it is not easy. work, I personally know many such people and I am full of admiration for their efforts to commit themselves to

10:41:40 | children who require special care and attention, because in their short life,

10:41:47 | many bad things as Poland 2050 are three ways, we regret to say that our

10:41:53 | country has not done anything for years to ensure these people with decent

10:41:58 | employment conditions that will also provide them with a decent pension in the future, a mandate contract is certainly not the right form of employment here, not

10:42:09 | to mention the minimum wage, it is a stressful job 24

10:42:15 | hours a day, 365 days a year, without leave, without care.

10:42:20 | respite without quick medical and psychological support for children who often need it right away, and with biological parents who

10:42:30 | can give a damn, therefore, as Poland 2050, we appeal to the government to take the occasion

10:42:36 | of this debate to take care of formal and legal issues related to the employment and decent remuneration of these families, however, this is not the only problem,

10:42:46 | a lot needs to be done because at the moment there are 1,300 children, about 1,300 children stay in

10:42:51 | biological families even though the court ordered the child to be placed in

10:42:57 | foster care, what is the reason for this? First of all, there is a lack of foster families because not everyone knows about it. I myself I am an example of this type

10:43:05 | where, if it were not for the coincidence that I met a person who was involved in the promotion of foster parenting, I probably would not have become a foster family,

10:43:14 | therefore the promotion is extremely important, but also the question of money for this promotion,

10:43:23 | an example from my city of Łódź, PLN 18,000 per year intended for the promotion of

10:43:29 | foster parenthood, and Maintaining one child in an orphanage costs

10:43:34 | up to PLN 12,000 per month. As a foster family, I receive PLN 1,361 per month

10:43:41 | per child, but these are of little importance. Costs are also important. The child’s well-being is also important because he or she

10:43:47 | develops incomparably better in a foster family than in a care and education facility where these educators Even with great

10:43:55 | willingness, they change, it is not stable for

10:44:00 | the child. Another thing that is also important is to place children where there

10:44:05 | is space, not necessarily close to the residence of their biological parents. If there is one second child in a facility,

10:44:14 | these families really do not prognosis that DCI will occur, so at this point we must take care of

10:44:19 | the child’s well-being and not the good of the parents, to keep them close, this is

10:44:25 | also an important issue that we pay very close attention to, so I will tell you

10:44:31 | one more thing about the independence of a child with a disability, which turns 18, I’m talking about a

10:44:40 | disability that makes it impossible for the child to function independently. The only thing that institutions can offer is a place in

10:44:48 | a Social Welfare Home or Can you imagine raising such a child who grows up and you give him to the DPS after all, these families are very

10:44:59 | strongly connected both this child with the foster parents and the parent with this child, conditions must be created so that this child can, this adult person

10:45:07 | who cannot live alone, can stay in this family, I could stand here for another hour and tell you how much there is to be done in the issue of

10:45:15 | foster parenthood, but I would like us to stop just talking about it

10:45:20 | and start doing it because there is a lot to do in this matter, we as the Poland 2053 Club will support the current government project, but at the same time

10:45:30 | we appeal for further work to improve the lives of children and families substitutes Thank you very much, thank you very much,

10:45:38 | Mrs. Katarzyna Uber, Mrs. Katarzyna Uber, I am sorry, Mrs. Maria Kłopotek, Polish People’s Party, the third way, and I want you to

10:45:48 | take the chair today, I am handing over the chairmanship to Bosak. Thank you very much and have a nice evening,

10:45:58 | Dear Madam Speaker, Mr. Marshal, Mrs. Minister, Honorable Member of the Chamber,

10:46:04 | I would like to begin by I would like to warmly greet the Family Children’s Home in Sucha in the Tuchola district, which I am pleased to have

10:46:18 | , and I would like to wish all children in difficult situations to find such homes. On behalf of the Polish

10:46:27 | People’s Party Third Way parliamentary club, I would like to present a committee report on the government’s bill on amending the act on family support and the foster care system.

10:46:36 | and the Act on the promotion of employment and labor market institutions dr num 293

10:46:47 | and the foster care system We read that it was created for the benefit of children who

10:46:54 | need special protection and help from adults in the family environment, an atmosphere of happiness, love and understanding For the sake of their harmonious

10:47:05 | development and future independence in life to ensure the protection of

10:47:12 | their rights and freedoms for the good of the SST family and the natural environment

10:47:19 | for the development and well-being of all its members, especially children, in the belief

10:47:25 | that effective help for families experiencing difficulties in caring for and raising children and effective protection and assistance for children can be

10:47:33 | achieved through the cooperation of all persons from institutions and organizations working with children and parents, the Act specifies the principles and forms of supporting

10:47:43 | families experiencing difficulties, the principles and forms of providing

10:47:51 | foster care and assistance in the independence of its adult pupils, the tasks of public administration in the field of supporting the family

10:48:00 | and the foster care system, what is it? this foster care is a family or

10:48:06 | institutional form of care provided for children in the event that parents are unable to provide care and upbringing, the forms of family

10:48:15 | foster care are non-professional related foster care, including

10:48:21 | professional ones acting as a family emergency service and professional specialized family children’s home and institutional foster care

10:48:29 | which is provided in the form of a care and education facility, a regional care and therapeutic facility

10:48:36 | , an intervention pre-adoption center, the proposed changes to Article

10:48:44 | 197 of June 2011 on supporting the family and the foster care system

10:48:52 | provide for an increase in the maximum amount of funds from the labor fund intended for co-financing the own tasks of local government units in

10:49:01 | the area of supporting family and the foster care system, in particular by co-financing the remuneration of persons acting as professional foster families

10:49:10 | and running family children’s homes, Article pi of the proposed Act

10:49:16 | assumes that in the Act of June 9, 2011 on supporting the family and

10:49:21 | the foster care system in Article 197, paragraph 4, which reads the budget act

10:49:27 | , the resources of the labor fund in an amount not exceeding PLN 40 million are annually allocated for the co-financing referred to in paragraph 1, and

10:49:37 | this point is replaced by the wording in the budget act, the labor fund resources are annually allocated for

10:49:42 | the co-financing referred to in paragraph 1 in an amount greater than PLN 85 million, the consequence of this change is also the amendment of Article 109h,

10:49:53 | point 2 of the Act of April 20, 2004 on employment promotion and

10:49:58 | labor market institutions, added in Article 197 of the Act of June 9,

10:50:05 | 2011 on family support and the foster care system,

10:50:11 | clarified in section 4a. it has been stated that the co-financing from the labor fund provides for the possibility of allocating or a portion of this co-financing for allowances

10:50:19 | for persons acting as professional foster families and running family children’s homes as well as the costs of contributions for these allowances on the basis of

10:50:29 | point 4b added in Article 197 of the same Act, the amount of co-financing

10:50:35 | from resources of the labor fund intended for the above-mentioned allowances under the above-mentioned programs may exceed 80

10:50:43 | expenditures for implementation by a local government unit

10:50:49 | propose that the Draft Act Wła proposes that the Draft Act enters into force after 14 days from its announcement The proposed regulation

10:50:59 | is not contrary to European Union law and, taking all the above into account, the club of the Polish People’s Party Third Way will vote

10:51:06 | in favor adoption of the draft bill proposal Thank you very much Thank you very much Mrs. MP zapras p. Kat

10:51:17 | Mr. Speaker Mrs. Minister Honorable House I am pleased to present the position of the Left Club on the government bill on amending the Act on

10:51:25 | family support and the foster care system and the Act on employment promotion and labor market institutions contained in parliamentary form No. 293 together with

10:51:34 | the committee report from form No. 312 in one sentence, too many orphanages,

10:51:41 | too few foster families,

10:51:48 | foster family form, because there are still no candidates to perform this function.

10:51:54 | In fact, to perform this very important social role, but Minister

10:52:01 | Dziemianowicz is aware aware of this problem and intensively, together with

10:52:08 | Minister Aleksandra Gajewsk on Tymac 29,

10:52:16 | on foster care, which I also had the honor to take part in, together with representatives of the entire community related to

10:52:24 | foster care in Poland, non-governmental organizations, local governments, government administration, but also or primarily parents foster parents

10:52:35 | and there is so much to do, our goal is the good of the children, the good

10:52:41 | of every child, the good of the families who take care of these children and the good of the care system, which is so important and has been so neglected in

10:52:50 | recent years, said Minister Agnieszka Dziemianowicz, thanks to

10:52:56 | the hard and effective work of Minister Minister Dziemianowicz. and Minister Gajewska, the situation of families of children in the foster care system will

10:53:06 | improve, today we are taking a step in this direction, the government will finance the local government’s tasks

10:53:12 | related to supporting the family of the foster care system in Tymel. In 24, the resources

10:53:17 | of the labor fund will be increased from PLN 40 million to PLN 62.5 million. The funding will be allocated for salary allowances

10:53:27 | for people who act as professional foster families and run family orphanages. Detailed rules for co-financing will be specified

10:53:37 | in the government program. The government plans that the allowances provided for in the program will amount to PLN 1,000 gross and will be paid from July 1, 2020

10:53:47 | to people providing professional family care. foster care in the form of

10:53:53 | a professional foster family and a family children’s home provide protection for children deprived of their parents’ care and for children who, for

10:54:01 | their own safety, must be removed from their biological families by supporting them We help to create conditions of care and upbringing for children that are as

10:54:12 | close to a family home as possible

10:54:17 | . Thank you very much, Mr. MP, and I invite you, Mrs. Joanna, the

10:54:23 | left wing Please, Mr. MP, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, Honorable

10:54:31 | House, 30 child deaths a year, dozens of children waiting to be

10:54:37 | placed in foster care, which the state cannot provide, lack of care facilities to

10:54:51 | provide, It ended in the greatest drama, no changes, no bold changes in

10:54:57 | the system, the situation will be deteriorating from year to year, fertility statistics

10:55:02 | are falling, young people do not decide to be parents, so the number of people ready

10:55:08 | to create foster families or family orphanages will also naturally decline, and today they

10:55:18 | provide 3/4 of places for children, decent salary, good employment conditions

10:55:23 | for professional families that we are talking about today are already a big step towards unblocking the system. In practice, there are children waiting in line who

10:55:33 | need to be in a healthy, well-functioning family as soon as possible,

10:55:38 | but in addition, the state must be close to these families, support them by also providing

10:55:43 | appropriate psychological assistance. course, above all, implement what

10:55:49 | organizations have been calling for for a long time, create a register of foster families so that

10:55:55 | chaos does not determine whether the state will make it in time when the child’s life is at stake.

10:56:01 | I am very glad that the Ministry has taken up this issue. in the first months of the term, ladies and gentlemen, as a child raised by

10:56:11 | grandparents, I know very well what the difference is between being a child in an orphanage

10:56:18 | and being a child, a child who was brought up in a kind of foster family because the grandparents were not obliged

10:56:26 | to raise the child, and therefore with all my heart I personally but also the club left Vote for this government project to be adopted, thank you, thank you very much,

10:56:35 | Mr. MP. And I invite Mr. Grzegorz Braun, Mr. Confederation. Please, Mr.

10:56:46 | God bless all the good carers of children in Podrzewo. Applause for the grandparents,

10:56:53 | Ms. MP. The Confederation will not oppose the proceedings of this project, but the Confederation will not. may not pay

10:57:02 | attention to the fact that this is one of the manifestations of your determination

10:57:11 | to solve problems only symptomatically, not to treat

10:57:16 | their roots, what is happening to Polish children with Polish foster and non-

10:57:22 | foster families, above all, universal fiscalism, oppression and

10:57:30 | bureaucratic Talmudism, which makes it harder for people to bind ends meet And then

10:57:37 | , Minister, they ride in on a white horse, a hunchback, and hand out the money

10:57:44 | they printed in their budget, the deficit of which, as you can see, has no limits anymore and can be increased without

10:57:55 | any major inhibitions. Will this be another tool for you to nationalize local governments through selection and selecting

10:58:07 | those who will receive the money and eliminating those who will not even

10:58:13 | see it, what kind of grants will be granted

10:58:20 | to support family care homes, of course they need

10:58:30 | help, but the best help would be not to prevent

10:58:35 | Poles from shaping the well-being of their families and contributing to

10:58:40 | economic growth you, by increasing the wealth of

10:58:47 | Polish families, you came out with an early pill for

10:58:53 | teenagers this term, you came up with a project to legalize the spread

10:59:00 | of infanticide in Poland, it promotes perversions, so

10:59:06 | we destroy it and now it is distributed on cotton pads. Thank you very much,

10:59:12 | Mr. I invite you, Mr. MP, the PR Confederation is also welcome. Mr. Marshal. Honorable Members, I would like to take this place to express my appreciation

10:59:23 | and gratitude to all good people who create foster families

10:59:28 | or run orphanages, because a child is not a problem, a child is not

10:59:35 | a parasite. The Family Help Center requires thorough repairs and no amount of money will change that without taking appropriate action in money in these institutions

10:59:43 | Of course, families, but it is a drop in the ocean of needs, there is nothing

10:59:50 | about repairing the system, the problem is not always about money, but very often about the lack of a staff of trained foster care coordinators, psychologists or

11:00:00 | family curators, future foster parents should be properly prepared for the upcoming responsibilities and any related aspects, the issue

11:00:10 | should also concern greater availability and openness of employees

11:00:16 | , support from the institution. To sum up, the

11:00:22 | foster care system requires a thorough overhaul, thank you, thank you very much, Mr.

11:00:28 | and I invite you to ask questions at this moment, we start with Mr. Grzegorz Braun’s question.

11:00:40 | Confederation, I would like to ask about ADC, adoption procedures

11:00:46 | It is not true that there are no people in Poland who want to give family life to children

11:00:54 | who have been deprived of this luxury, there are queues of people willing, but

11:01:01 | adoption procedures delay

11:01:08 | , delay obtaining the right to take care of a child who also

11:01:15 | wants nothing more and does not need anything more, so the question is: apart from printing money in order to distribute it to selected local governments,

11:01:24 | the Ministry is interested in how to relieve congestion at the level of

11:01:30 | family courts and adoption procedures. Thank you very much, Mr.

11:01:38 | Wiol Tumanowicz, and I invite you to ask another question. Confederation, Mr. Speaker, Honorable

11:01:43 | Chamber. I am also proud of myself with this declaration and vote. in the debate and announcements

11:01:49 | of systemic reforms were made , the previous government should also be held accountable in this aspect for not doing anything about it, but of course my question

11:01:58 | is when and what will you do to fix it because the Prime Minister can make promises

11:02:05 | talk a lot and then ignore your declarations We have a question, after all, when is fuel after 51, when is the

11:02:14 | tax-free allowance, start taking government and your own program seriously Poles deserve a reduction in the

11:02:22 | tax burden, not an increase in VAT on food or an increase in energy prices, because

11:02:29 | for now it is has just become the main point of your government program and not such systemic repairs as the foster care system, thank you

11:02:40 | , thank you very much, Mr. MP, and I invite you. Now, Mrs. Barbara Polska,

11:02:47 | is the MP in the room? If not,

11:02:52 | I invite Mrs. Marta Wcisło, coalition club.

11:02:59 | Citizenship Please, Mr Speaker, Honorable Member of the House, Minister, today we are processing a bill

11:03:10 | related to foster care, very well, ladies and gentlemen,

11:03:16 | not much has happened in this regard and foster care in Poland did not function well, how do we know this, we know how many children are in orphanages today.

11:03:28 | Today we are proceeding regulations that should have been changed a long time ago

11:03:34 | First of all, there should be an increased amount of funding for families who

11:03:41 | raise children in foster care, to which I would like to thank you very much for what you do,

11:03:46 | but we should improve the regulations related to the Family Code and also Which, as far as I remember, was not amended by many many years and

11:03:58 | also take systemic actions, Minister, my question: What actions

11:04:04 | have been taken in this area for 8 years or what omissions and what

11:04:09 | proposals does the Ministry have in the context of the future for Polish children and

11:04:14 | families? Thank you very much, Mr. MP, and I now invite Mr. Krzysztof Habur Club Civic point,

11:04:23 | Mr. Speaker, Your Honor, people employed and working for

11:04:30 | the foster care system for the Social Welfare system are people who are extremely

11:04:40 | committed to their work and devoted to what they do. I know this because,

11:04:50 | as a local government official, I have cooperated with them for several years, but I also know

11:04:56 | that the level of their remuneration is highly inadequate to the importance

11:05:04 | of the work they do, but that local governments have always

11:05:10 | lacked money to pay these people decently,

11:05:18 | especially in recent years when the management boards of the United Right

11:05:25 | were unable to keep up with galloping inflation, hence

11:05:31 | the draft Acts are so important which we are proceeding with today because they will affect the increase in these

11:05:36 | salaries, therefore ladies and gentlemen, please adopt these resolutions as soon as possible so that the government

11:05:42 | can implement

11:05:50 | them, I will receive the remuneration, they will receive the money they are waiting for and which they simply

11:05:56 | deserve. Thank you very much, Mr. MP. I invite MP Iwona Maria Kozłowska, Club of the Civic Coalition, Mr. Marshal. Honorable Member of the House,

11:06:07 | Mrs Minister, an increase in funds

11:06:15 | will contribute to improving the Financial Security of persons acting as professional foster families and running family children’s homes.

11:06:24 | February 1, 2023 The amended Act on supporting the family and foster care has indeed come into force. In this Act, among other things, the remuneration

11:06:33 | for professional and foster care families has increased. running family children’s homes, the Ministry of Family and Social Policy certainly conducted an audit as to

11:06:42 | what the result of this change is in 2023 and whether the increase in financing

11:06:50 | for foster care influenced the maintenance and

11:06:57 | launch of subsequent foster families

11:07:03 | that would like to play such a role, i.e. whether they maintained this role families and are

11:07:08 | there more of them? I would like to ask for an answer in writing. But I would also like to know how,

11:07:14 | during these ministries of the previous Government, there were actually more foster families

11:07:23 | so that deinstitutionalization could also be implemented in the case of orphanages and this type of facilities.

11:07:32 | Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Madam MP and I would like to invite Mrs Żaneta Cwalin

11:07:37 | Śliwowska

11:07:44 | 205 PR, working with children is a huge responsibility, but also a privilege,

11:07:50 | I say this as an educator and a person who has spent her entire professional life with children , guardians, educators, explain the world to children and teach them how to be a good and

11:08:00 | responsible adult. from their committed experience

11:08:05 | ingenuity, responsibility, patience and empathy, the life

11:08:11 | of a child who has experienced a crisis depends on the level of

11:08:17 | interpalm of such people, as is the scope of their responsibilities, children who

11:08:23 | find themselves in a difficult family situation, have been placed in the foster care system , require special care from us from society,

11:08:32 | negative situations they experienced at such a young age age often translate into many difficulties in their emotional development.

11:08:45 | Rin orphanages have been completely behind other public sector employees in terms of salary increases. I am very glad that the government is addressing this

11:08:55 | problem by proposing co-financing for local governments to increase their wages. It is a project that not only strengthens current families, but it will also encourage

11:09:04 | additional people to raise children who cannot be raised by their biological parents. I hope that this is not the end and the beginning

11:09:13 | of the government’s attention towards forms of foster care, including

11:09:19 | non-professional ones. Thank you very much, Mrs. MP, and I invite you, Mr. Bartosz Romowicz, Poland 2053

11:09:32 | Dear Mr. Speaker, Minister, MPs, Gentlemen, MPs

11:09:37 | Of course, this project is a good project, with good roads

11:09:45 | , my colleague from the club, MP Ewa Szymanowska, gave a few examples Because she knows what she is talking about from her own life experience and It is worth taking advantage of

11:09:54 | the experience of people who are in the Sejm I would like to ask the minister here, more in the direction of local government, because we all know that these funds

11:10:01 | will be greater and there we have a magic word maybe that these funds can be greater. Does

11:10:06 | the minister plan to take these funds in the next steps in the coming years and we also know the second aspect? what an important role

11:10:17 | C the government plans to support local governments in activities related to finances, because

11:10:24 | it is not just finances that decide about it, but also a whole range of changes in the approach to foster care, thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. I invite

11:10:32 | Mr. Henryk Szopiński, the Civic Coalition Club, please be kind

11:10:45 | to us politicians especially the highest priority, especially when, for various reasons, the youngest cannot grow up under the supervision of their

11:10:54 | biological parents, it has been proven many times, and it was also discussed here in this room, that state orphanages are not a good solution, and there are still too few

11:11:02 | foster families and family children’s homes. This is primarily due to insufficient support for these facilities from the state, which

11:11:10 | was confirmed by the Supreme Audit Office in 2023. It is no secret that today,

11:11:15 | foster care and family orphanages are run by exceptional people with special character traits and huge amounts

11:11:22 | of empathy, if the motive for their decisions were employment conditions. I would dare to say that

11:11:28 | there would be even fewer such foster care orphanages. I personally know foster families who have decided to adopt the children placed in their care,

11:11:37 | although the adoption process is a real journey through suffering, it is an attitude worthy of the highest recognition. In my little Zakrzewo

11:11:46 | there is an excellent family children’s home filled with love and great , I hope Mrs. Wiesia has enough strength for as long as possible, but it cannot be that

11:11:54 | the functioning of such institutions is largely based on a kind of volunteering. Therefore, it is good that

11:12:03 | by amending the substitute we will strengthen local governments by increasing the maximum amount for their own tasks in this area, but also by improving the conditions

11:12:11 | employment and salary allowances, we will restore dignity

11:12:18 | and those running children’s families July 2024 Thank you very much, Mr. MP, and

11:12:25 | I invite you, Ms. Magdalena Małgorzata Kołodziejczak, please be very

11:12:31 | Civic, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, Your Honor, the report of the Audit Office from

11:12:36 | April 2023 shows that the selection of

11:12:45 | candidates for this position in the assessment is dominant. chamber, this state of affairs results primarily from insufficient state support for existing

11:12:54 | foster families, the audit showed that the Minister for Family Affairs did not

11:13:09 | subsidize the regulations did not provide foster families with the expected guarantee of stable employment, the remuneration after the increase only

11:13:17 | slightly exceeded the minimum wage, at the same time it is worth emphasizing that the average the average cost of maintaining a child in an institutional children’s home is

11:13:25 | almost ten times the cost of maintaining a child in foster care, the issue of finances is one thing, but probably the more important

11:13:34 | thing is the emotional development of the child, surrounded by the care and love of

11:13:41 | third parties. Ladies and Gentlemen, I cordially greet you and I bow before people who opened not only their hearts but also the doors of their homes to

11:13:49 | create a substitute for a family for children disadvantaged by fate, thank you, thank you very much, Mr. MP and I invite Mrs. Renata Rak,

11:13:57 | Obywatelska Coalition, Madam Speakers of the House of Representatives, a project

11:14:03 | to increase the maximum amount of funds from the labor fund in the area of support family and the foster care system mainly concerns the payment of salary supplements

11:14:11 | for persons performing professional functions of foster families running family children’s homes, these funds will reach almost 3,000 people,

11:14:20 | it is support for families who experience difficulties in fulfilling the care and educational function, mainly related to the lack of sufficient financial resources, it is

11:14:29 | help for children who need special protection, care and support from adults and the family environment – this is help in becoming independent of

11:14:38 | adult pupils leaving foster families or family children’s homes – effective protection of children for them can only be achieved through

11:14:47 | the cooperation of all people in institutions and organizations working for children

11:14:53 | and their families Thank you very much Thank you very much Mrs. MP and I invite you Mrs.

11:14:58 | Jagna March White Walczak club of civil coalitions Please Mr.

11:15:04 | MP Thank you Mr. Speaker Mrs. Minister Your Honor, in the lives of children

11:15:09 | who find themselves in a difficult situation, foster families play an extremely important role in taking up this challenge, they overlap take on a huge

11:15:18 | responsibility that requires many additional skills from them. Unfortunately, statistics leave no doubt

11:15:26 | that the number of children under foster care is constantly growing and the funds allocated to support them do not keep up with this growth rate. Family

11:15:36 | foster care is a priority form of foster care and is several times cheaper. from institutional care in

11:15:45 | educational care centers, which is why this project is very important. The introduction of the proposed changes will allow for an increase in funds allocated for allowances for people

11:15:54 | acting as foster families and running family children’s homes.

11:15:59 | This is a step towards fair remuneration for those who take on this difficult but extremely important role. in society by enabling

11:16:09 | the use of labor funds for these purposes, we will be able to effectively provide

11:16:15 | children with a chance to grow up at home Where they can count on a warm family atmosphere, all this is particularly important in the context of children with

11:16:24 | disabilities, so Minister, I would like to ask you to answer the question by

11:16:30 | how much will increase, the funds for this purpose will increase, thank you very much, thank you very much,

11:16:37 | Mr. MP and I invite Mrs. Urszula Rus, Law and Justice Club,

11:16:45 | Mr. Speaker, Honorable House, Mrs. Minister, of course, any funds, any

11:16:50 | bill that is intended to improve the well-being of children, including very harmed children

11:16:56 | whose biological families were ineffective or for various reasons these children are not there, they are not taken care of, it is praiseworthy and Law and Justice

11:17:06 | will support such an act, but ladies and gentlemen, this is the height of hypocrisy and hypocrisy, if you listen to you here, after all, this is

11:17:15 | an act that gives PLN 20 million possibility of adding 20 million for poviats from

11:17:23 | the work fund for foster families Ladies and Gentlemen, how did you prepare

11:17:29 | for this government, after all, your Leader said that you had everything ready in your sleeve, the laws were prepared, and what did you prepare, we made

11:17:38 | the amendment, Mrs. Kozłowska is not in the room, they debated with foster families

11:17:43 | and we have changed this act in 2023. I have a question for the minister. If you do not have a prepared act that

11:17:52 | will support and support foster parenthood, it is certainly prepared in the ministry. All you need to do is reach for it and demonstrate some work in

11:18:03 | Ministry, because for now, what you are offering is really embarrassing and

11:18:10 | this is your action in favor of Zocha’s motherhood.

11:18:20 | Thank you very much, Mr. MP. I invite you, Ms. Ewa Szymanowska, Club Poland 2053, dear Mr. Marshal, Mrs. Minister, Honorable Member, I would like

11:18:31 | to refer to this normality of the family those normal families where children are taken away just because there is some minor problem, they don’t have a job, they don’t have

11:18:39 | money, that’s not true, the country’s visas take them away for some reason,

11:18:45 | maybe a child has to wait for help for 4 years, where the mother burns them with cigarettes, but dinner is always cooked, it’s always good, the house is clean, yes our state works

11:18:55 | , our state tolerates children being beaten at home and it is not

11:19:01 | the slap you are talking about, which is also bad, I am talking about the fact that children have broken arms, legs, they have bruises, they are simply hungry, I am talking about this, and

11:19:13 | we are talking about such families and this wonderful biological family that some of you would like to protect is the biggest nightmare for these children. I

11:19:21 | know this as a person who has spent time with many children from orphanages as a volunteer, as a person who has been interested in this topic for many years and I help

11:19:32 | foster families and I know what the children go there, thank you very much, thank you very much, MP, and now we invite the Secretary of State

11:19:43 | in the Ministry of Family, Labor and Social Policy, Aleksandra Gajewsk, to speak. Please

11:19:52 | , Mr. Speaker, the bill we are working on today

11:19:58 | in the Sejm is very specific financial aid for, above all,

11:20:03 | professional and professional foster families. all people who run family orphanages, as

11:20:09 | you already know. It assumes financing a salary increase for professional foster families and people who run these family orphanages

11:20:19 | in the form of a salary supplement of PLN 1,000 gross per month and

11:20:26 | supplements the allowances paid to employees of the family support and foster care system. this morning, the source of financing for the allowances

11:20:37 | is the labor fund and these changes will apply to nearly 3,000 people performing this function, i.e.

11:20:45 | 2,100 people who are professional foster families and 800 people who

11:20:53 | run family foster homes. On April 10 this year, the Social Policy and Family Committee

11:20:59 | issued a positive opinion on the project providing for the granting of salary supplements to

11:21:08 | Social Welfare employees of the care system for children up to three years of age and the foster care system, and

11:21:14 | it did not cover professional foster families and those running

11:21:20 | family orphanages because they are employed on different terms and today

11:21:27 | we are supplementing this system with this project, which now with we are discussing with you.

11:21:32 | In response to the voices of the community, knowing the needs of this

11:21:38 | community, we have prepared a draft project. In response to your submissions, statements, questions,

11:21:50 | Mrs. Filip Sobczak is not with us, Mrs. Rusecka, whom I do not see in the room, also spoke.

11:21:57 | Ladies and Gentlemen, the rich achievements of our predecessors. I would be happy

11:22:04 | to summarize it, this is it. crisis, collapse of the

11:22:09 | foster care system, reduction in the number of foster families,

11:22:15 | chronic court cases in which children so desperately need help,

11:22:21 | safety care, when there is a threat to their health, they often

11:22:27 | wait for their lives to be in a safe place for them,

11:22:34 | unfulfilled decisions to place children in foster care, lack of any cooperation between ministries,

11:22:44 | possibilities of helping children who need tests, who need

11:22:51 | psychological help, very often psychiatric help, because there is no cooperation, there was no cooperation between ministries, between the Ministry of Health, between

11:23:00 | the Ministry of Justice, guidelines for family courts where these processes

11:23:05 | were as long as the MPs said here, emphasizing, knowing these problems that children may have to wait a few years for the post

11:23:17 | to pass, they lose the chance for their lives

11:23:23 | to look completely different, for them to have a chance, lack of support from the

11:23:30 | children’s rights ombudsman who praised the violence, including mentioning spankings from their father and, for now,

11:23:37 | for

11:23:45 | actions outside themselves states of omission and states themselves

11:23:52 | lack of action has led to a situation in which people today, at a conference

11:23:58 | organized in the Senate, with tears in their eyes and a lump in their throat, talked about

11:24:04 | the situation that we are trying to solve by listening to their voices,

11:24:10 | and in order to meet their expectations,

11:24:16 | we organized a round table in the Ministry building where

11:24:22 | we talked about it for several hours what can we do to help

11:24:28 | the youngest, to protect them, so that they can feel safe, so that every child in

11:24:34 | Poland has a chance when their loved ones

11:24:39 | fail, and we established it here. A question was asked by Mrs.

11:24:47 | Szymanowska. These are teams for family foster care, including parenting, professional support for systemic care. foster care and

11:24:56 | the independence of adult charges of institutional foster care, including changes in the functions of

11:25:05 | care and educational facilities, support for the youngest children and those with special needs, and the working team for matters

11:25:16 | We know how big challenges we

11:25:21 | face regarding foster care and the last online meeting took place today, the next

11:25:27 | stationary meeting will take place On May 16 and May 24, we will all meet again

11:25:33 | to discuss the results of these meetings, all in order to jointly

11:25:41 | find solutions

11:25:46 | for the communities that create the system, thanks to which this system is able

11:25:53 | to function today, people who are extremely committed, people who devote their

11:25:58 | lives, their time, who resign from work professional devoting themselves to children in

11:26:04 | need who put everything aside because they receive a call at night in the middle of the night that there is a child who needs help and to our people today

11:26:14 | we bow low, thanking them for their work for their sacrifice, promising them that the state

11:26:20 | will not let them down, that we will look for resources that we will make every effort to help them, that we will work with the poviats

11:26:30 | to improve the mechanisms of action so that the legal framework they are developing

11:26:38 | is not, how to put it well, not hampering at the executive level

11:26:44 | in the poviats because we know that this is happening in many poviats today, unfortunately it is happening, we know that there are financial constraints in the counties, but we will

11:26:53 | actively engage in dialogue with the newly elected local government officials to look for

11:26:59 | good solutions because every child, even one in the county, deserves

11:27:06 | a chance to have a normal life, and Mr. Bra, I will tell you this, most children are taken away from

11:27:16 | heterosexual families where the state does not want to support

11:27:23 | anti-violence mechanisms And we are returning to the anti-violence convention, we want to consciously plan families and that is why we want

11:27:33 | to allow termination of pregnancies That is why we want people, women, to have access to

11:27:39 | the pill for the in vitro procedure because we want people to consciously plan their families

11:27:49 | so that children were wanted, for children to live in loving families and please show us Please show us where are these people who

11:27:58 | want to adopt children so much because there are about 2,000 families who apply for adoption

11:28:04 | every year and of course the leading Ministry in this regard is the Ministry of Justice but we We have established cooperation with the Ministry of Justice

11:28:11 | because we believe it is necessary, as well as

11:28:16 | cooperation with the Ministry of Equal Treatment, as well as with the Ministry of

11:28:21 | Health. As with the Children’s Ombudsman, we will do so because we believe

11:28:27 | it is necessary for the good of children. Answering further questions from the MP

11:28:34 | . Wcisło asked about the Family Code, yes, we have an announcement that we will be

11:28:40 | working on the Family Code, we will introduce very necessary changes and these will be big changes, MP Kozłowska asked about

11:28:52 | the actions of the previous government and how they influenced the number of foster families,

11:28:57 | not according to the data I have at the moment, no these activities influenced the increase in the number of professional foster families and

11:29:06 | I will present the rest of the information to the MP in writing. Mr. Romowicz wrote and asked about the funds that

11:29:15 | we are able to allocate. There is a limit in the Act for this year, this is half of this

11:29:20 | amount for next year, it is already PLN 45 million from the fund. work and we

11:29:28 | will, of course. As I said, in active dialogue with local government representatives

11:29:33 | territorial to meet the expectations of local governments, so that together

11:29:38 | we find solutions that will help protect the interests of every child,

11:29:44 | MP Maru Walczak asked about increasing funds, at the moment

11:29:52 | there is an increase of no less than PR 11.4 in the amount of benefits and remuneration

11:29:59 | due to foster families and people running family homes

11:30:05 | child and actually, I could answer the Russian MP with the same answer as I started. Well, you can’t brag about it and I

11:30:15 | ‘m really surprised by the certainty with which you speak here, because if

11:30:21 | I had so few achievements to my credit, I would rather

11:30:28 | cooperate in this matter. scope, because in the field of foster care we should act above such sharp disputes, political disputes, here we need

11:30:39 | all hands to work, to take action, to devote ourselves simply to this topic,

11:30:46 | because children need our support and I wanted to tell you that we and I,

11:30:52 | this is mine, this is also personal, this is my personal declaration, I will make every effort to make further steps possible in this area, which concern,

11:31:01 | for example, the regulation of forms of employment, because we hear the voices of families who create

11:31:07 | a family care system, because these employment issues then affect pension issues and we know that today this is the main problem people

11:31:15 | who create this system, we are in constant contact with families and

11:31:20 | organizations related to foster care, our ministry has

11:31:26 | working teams that develop new solutions, but in dialogue, listening

11:31:32 | to the voice of people who create this system, we listen to the voice of people, employees,

11:31:38 | we will introduce specific systemic changes towards the birth of the

11:31:46 | care system and we will do it in the spirit of parental responsibility and

11:31:54 | state responsibility for each child because,

11:32:00 | in our opinion, each child deserves equal opportunities. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr. MP. I

11:32:07 | hope that every unborn child also, Mr. MP, in what manner

11:32:14 | in the correction mode? Please, don’t exceed a minute if possible. Hit the table and the scissors spoke. It’s really scary that the ladies from

11:32:28 | the department that is supposed to deal with the well-being of the family. When we ask questions, the ladies respond with barrages

11:32:38 | about the legality of infanticide

11:32:44 | for minors or whether it is advertised by the state. zoot a technical

11:32:52 | procedure of a eugenic nature called invitro Hit the table and the scissors will speak,

11:32:59 | there is no such thing as safe abortion, it is extremely

11:33:06 | dangerous for the little person who loses his life, sir

11:33:13 | , that was not a correction, you did not refer directly to the MP’s words regarding the closing We will start the discussion on the third reading of the bill

11:33:22 | in a block of votes. I would like to thank everyone who took part in this debate and this concludes the consideration of the items on

11:33:30 | the agenda scheduled for April 24 this year.

11:33:35 | I would like to inform you that MPs have come forward to make parliamentary statements. Can any of the MPs would like to make a statement,

11:33:47 | no one has come forward, so I consider the list of MPs’ reported experiences closed and we are starting the block of parliamentary statements, setting their time for

11:33:56 | one and a half minutes. I invite MP Witold Tumanowicz to speak. Confederation You’re welcome, Mr. MEP, Mr. Speaker, High House,

11:34:05 | cash payments only up to the amount of EUR 10,000, such the proposal was

11:34:11 | voted by the European Parliament today the government supports this solution, in accordance with applicable regulations, cash transactions above EUR 10,000 are

11:34:21 | controlled the seller is obliged to verify such a customer in terms of the source of the money and report

11:34:29 | the transaction to the General Inspector of Financial Information The EU has just lowered this limit to EUR 3,000 entrepreneurs’ association and employers believe that

11:34:39 | adopting a limit for cash transactions is too far-reaching interference with civil liberties and citizens’ privacy, it will not help in

11:34:49 | limiting the gray zone, criminals have ways to introduce money from illegal activities into legal circulation in a way other

11:34:57 | than paying in cash, everyone should have a choice as to how he wants to pay a

11:35:02 | eurok Raci and the government in Poland, under the pretext of fighting crime, are depriving citizens of the European Union of economic freedom and the right to choose

11:35:10 | the method of payment. On June 9, elections to the European Parliament are the most important elections in the history of the European Union because fundamental

11:35:19 | freedoms are at risk and these are not jokes cash and zloty no MP MEP of

11:35:25 | the Confederation will never support their liquidation. Thank you, thank you very much,

11:35:31 | Mr. MP, and I invite you to deliver the parliamentary statement of Mr. Grzegorz Braun. Confederation. Please, Mr.

11:35:39 | MEP. Tomorrow, in the High Chamber, there will be several hours of debate on

11:35:46 | Polish foreign policy. Today, in the form of a parliamentary statement, I would like to start a debate on Polish foreign policy.

11:35:54 | a reminder of how in 1939 we were trapped in front of

11:36:03 | an oncoming truck full of rubble. First, by giving

11:36:09 | a guarantee from London, it was completely untruthful, completely coldly calculated,

11:36:15 | then we were

11:36:21 | massaged, they were cared for, the visit of the head of the British General Staff,

11:36:27 | General Ironside, to Warsaw in July and the famous sentence uttered, of course, in

11:36:34 | a closed room room, but it has gone down in history, the assurance may be

11:36:40 | We will come to you through the Black Sea because the Poles, already in the summer of 1939, began

11:36:45 | to realize that

11:36:51 | there was nothing behind the British guarantee, nothing stood behind it, and finally the contract signed in August, the British planes, as we know, reached the port of Constanta and served

11:37:02 | later, I don’t remember whether the Romanians or the Turks, in any case, they didn’t

11:37:07 | reach Poland, and in recent days we had a visit in Warsaw from the British Prime Minister, who came to us with similar assurances. There will be

11:37:17 | British planes, and all this, of course, after

11:37:23 | I finish in 2016, Mr. Speaker. Mr. May and Szydło, yes,

11:37:31 | they signed a defense pact Well, ladies and gentlemen,

11:37:37 | I am announcing that when the British or the English offer

11:37:45 | support and defense pacts, I run away screaming. Thank you very much, Mr. MP,

11:37:52 | I invite Mr. Włodzimierz Skalik,

11:38:03 | Confederation, Mr. Speaker, the Polish High Chamber.

11:38:14 | officers and this number is constantly growing because more people are leaving the ranks of the police, resigned by the lack of hope that the government will heal this

11:38:24 | formation instead of eliminating pathology, discouraging people from working in the police, the

11:38:29 | police headquarters is analyzing the possibility of employing people who are not Polish citizens, the interest of the ministry’s management is primarily

11:38:39 | citizens Ukraine, Belarus or rubble, i.e. coming from national groups with an unusually high level

11:38:48 | of crime, and next to this there is a draft regulation which increases

11:38:54 | the level of police training for trainees to approximately PLN 6,000, which is an amount higher

11:39:00 | than today received by many officers with several years of experience in the countryside,

11:39:06 | spreading the word among police officers and one can expect a dynamized

11:39:15 | question to Prime Minister Tusk for what purpose his government is replacing the Polish

11:39:22 | Police with Ukrainian-Belarusian-Georgian – is it about the fact that foreigners in

11:39:29 | the uniform of a Polish policeman will, in the near future, without hesitation and with

11:39:34 | complete ruthlessness arrest, interrogate or club Poles, for example those protesting? at the PR office

11:39:44 | against the Green Deal or against the use of

11:39:49 | forced therapy or mass expropriation of buildings that are not

11:39:56 | zero-emission, is the idea that young Ukrainians fleeing Ukraine before

11:40:02 | being drafted into the army should, in Polish uniforms, herd young Poles to

11:40:08 | be sent to the Eastern Front, as he said? General Bogusław Samol were

11:40:14 | sacrificed on the altar of the security of the United States or

11:40:19 | Western Europe. Thank you very much, Mr. I invite you, Mr. Roman FR, also

11:40:28 | the Confederation. Dear Mr. Marshal, High Parliament. Today we witnessed another edition of the debate on the non-existent Silesian language, which is

11:40:38 | another substitute topic that this Parliament must live by. important problems can be dealt with

11:40:45 | because the Silesian language because the so-called

11:40:51 | autonomy because there is a specific Zakowski Silesia here and not a Silesian Cult Well, there

11:40:57 | must be a sacrifice for it to become an act, as it were

11:41:02 | founding Silesia, Zakowski, ideology

11:41:08 | of the environment of 1945, committing at least two distortions,

11:41:18 | namely, they limit the expression Upper Silesian tragedy only to the events of 1945 , and, horror of horrors, they introduce shameful expressions: Polish

11:41:27 | concentration camps Piotr Semka, the editor, once said If you want to psychologically separate the inhabitants of Silesia from Poland, the most effective

11:41:35 | is the tactic of promoting the thesis about the crimes of Poles in Silesia in place of the post-war fate of Poles under the owl and, more broadly,

11:41:44 | communist regime, which was also the fate of the innocently repressed inhabitants of Silesia, creates a vile antinomy of Polish crimes and Silesian victims, so

11:41:56 | ideology can dig an ever-widening gap between the concepts of Silesia and Polishness and In some time, it will be easy to present the camps as a symbol of the bloody

11:42:06 | Polish occupation of post-war Silesia, one more paragraph, Mr. Marshal, I propose to outline the issue more broadly and truly.

11:42:17 | Well, the Upper Silesian tragedy took place in the years

11:42:24 | 1939-45, it included, among other things, the extermination of the Silesian insurgents. The Germans

11:42:29 | had subscription letters exceptionally numerous and bloody persecutions of Home Army soldiers, mass conscripting of recruits from Silesia into

11:42:38 | the Wehrmacht to be sent to the Eastern Front, many of whom did not return.

11:42:44 | I do not need to add typically front-related issues, for example, the almost complete destruction of the city of Żory. The tragedy involved thousands of thousands of Silesian

11:42:52 | families. Therefore, we can only refer to the Upper Silesian tragedy. until the post-war period, when the Polish nation had absolutely no power in

11:43:01 | the areas of the emerging Polish People’s Republic, the Soviet NKVD was rampaging on our territory and

11:43:07 | communist anti-Poles were managing the camps in a bestial way, including people

11:43:12 | marching with the famous butcher, executioner Solomon More, thank you very much, Mr. MP, I invite you now Mr. MP

11:43:23 | Andrzej zapałowski also Confederation You are welcome, Mr.

11:43:31 | Speaker, Honorable Chamber Two months ago, I submitted an interpellation to

11:43:39 | the Minister of Internal Affairs asking how many rounds a policeman

11:43:47 | fires on average in a year, it was not such a question, you can say it out of the hat,

11:43:54 | why, because a year ago the Minister of Internal Affairs in Rzeszów, then Minister Kamiński,

11:44:01 | passed on the entire stock of ammunition of the Ministry of

11:44:07 | Internal Affairs and a large part of the weapons are ceremonially sent to Ukraine

11:44:13 | from my information that I have every year, in order for the policemen to maintain their

11:44:20 | efficiency and muscle memory, i.e. their own safety, they must fire

11:44:26 | about 20 million rounds of ammunition, they fire about 10 million

11:44:34 | rounds of ammunition and the order for a new contingent to replenish it is also for

11:44:41 | 10 million, that is, ladies and gentlemen, an average policeman, and this also applies to

11:44:49 | border guard officers, fires several three-point magazines a year, which is as much as

11:44:55 | an average shooter once he goes to the shooting range, ladies and gentlemen, this

11:45:01 | is a really serious matter because if all this happens, it will

11:45:07 | simply be a situation stressful policemen who, through

11:45:14 | muscle memory, pose a threat to themselves and others, and ladies and gentlemen,

11:45:21 | we don’t even have stock shortages replenished, and finally, let me just emphasize that we are dealing with a situation where

11:45:31 | crime is brutalizing in Poland and we have a threat of large mass illegal migration in the event of

11:45:38 | destabilization in Poland. Middle East and ladies and gentlemen, we need to talk about it because we will simply build up

11:45:47 | an army of reserves and operational troops and we are doing the same at the moment in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. I invite

11:45:56 | Mr. Marcin Konieczka, Poland 2053, I don’t see the way, then Mr.

11:46:03 | Anna Dąbrowska Banaszek PiS club,

11:46:09 | Mr. Speaker, High Parliament, the local government elections are behind us, I would like

11:46:15 | to thank everyone who decided to run for positions at various levels to build our little homelands, some

11:46:25 | wanting to run and continue their work, others for the first time or again

11:46:32 | after a break. I would like to congratulate those who have gained their trust. others and

11:46:38 | were elected to perform various functions with the hope of fulfilling your

11:46:44 | promises, we will evaluate the effects of your actions in a few years, at the end only

11:46:49 | the beginning of the term, do not disappoint us, your voters. Today I would also like to thank everyone who

11:46:58 | has served in the local government for the last 5 years. So many good things have happened

11:47:03 | in local government Poland. Thanks to the cooperation of the government and the local government, many new roads have been built, playgrounds have been built and renovated, playgrounds,

11:47:13 | public space, permanent become more accessible to everyone It is impossible to list everything, I have heard from you many times, we have never had such

11:47:22 | understanding and financial support before, this support is visible all around us, because as good

11:47:28 | hosts, they made excellent use of the funds, I believe that Poland’s development will

11:47:33 | continue, I wish the newly elected or newly elected local government officials good luck in implementation of the announced programs

11:47:44 | Thank you very much, Mr. MP. I invite Mr. Krzysztof Mul, Confederation , is he in the room, I don’t see it, then I invite Mr. Fryderyk Sylwester

11:47:54 | Kapinos, the Law Club will make my

11:48:00 | parliamentary statement today. I would like to dedicate it especially to those who are trying to rewrite the history of Poland, what do they want to achieve? by changing the core

11:48:09 | curriculum in primary schools, at this basic level of education, a young

11:48:15 | person encounters for the first time a comprehensive and systematized presentation of historical knowledge, then students acquire knowledge about

11:48:24 | the founding of our country and its subsequent fate, hence the desire to remove it from the core curriculum is incomprehensible

11:48:29 | to me information about the baptism of Poland or the Battle of Grunwald as well as other events

11:48:38 | related to the Polish-Teutonic wars as well as knowledge about the achievements of our outstanding compatriots over the centuries, what do

11:48:47 | you really want the next generations of Poles to have only a rudimentary knowledge of

11:48:54 | the history of Poland, where is the place for building national pride, attachment to

11:48:59 | the homeland, I am from the generation of the 1960s, so the time of my youth is an example of the period

11:49:04 | of communism, then knowledge about important events in the history of Poland had to be gained from the family home, from parents and grandparents,

11:49:14 | are we now going back to that time, or are my grandchildren who are currently in primary school, for example OB, the Battle of Grunwald, its causes and effects

11:49:23 | will not be learned from the teacher in the glass, but only from their grandfather. It is high time

11:49:29 | for reflection on this matter from the Ministry of Education, thank you very much,

11:49:34 | thank you very much, Mr. I invite Mr. Waldemar Law and Justice,

11:49:44 | Mr. Marshal Members of the House, I have today’s statement regarding the European anti-missile shield, congratulations, as we have already modified this wonderful

11:49:53 | German dome, which is now called European. I would just like to draw attention to the fact that Germany, our very trustworthy neighbors, positively regards

11:50:04 | Poland’s plans to join this dome. after all, we will save the failing project, the same is true with the euro zone or stopping the construction of

11:50:14 | the CPK, Prime Minister Tusk is saving the country, but it’s a German country, thank you very much,

11:50:21 | thank you very much, Mr. MP, I am now inviting Mr. Bartosz Romowicz, Klub Polska 2053, the way You are welcome, Mr. Speaker, Mr. MEPs, Mr.

11:50:33 | MEPs. Today, the first meeting of the parliamentary group on celiac disease was held. Celiac disease is a disease of the

11:50:40 | autoimmune system which, statistically, if this room were full, there would be 46

11:50:45 | MPs, at that moment there would be 17 people, 17 MPs, it is a disease whose

11:50:51 | diagnosis takes 8 years in Poland, even though it could last for d weeks, it is a disease

11:50:57 | whose diagnosis is partially not reimbursed by the National Health Fund because blood tests that can diagnose this disease at the first

11:51:05 | stage are not reimbursed and are not included in the basket of basic primary care physicians. This team was established to change all this, I encourage all

11:51:13 | MPs to to join the work of this team, due to the fact that this is a

11:51:18 | very important disease which is actually a developmental disease, I also want to say one thing that the first change that we should make together

11:51:27 | is to amend Article 106 of the Education Law, which states that every child should have a hot meal at school but it doesn’t say what kind

11:51:35 | there should be a meal and in Poland we have such a situation that children who suffer from celiac disease do not have this warm food

11:51:45 | because of their school environment. Let’s change all this well. I invite you to

11:51:51 | cooperate as part of the parliamentary team for celiac disease. Thank you, Bardo. Thank you very much, sir. I invite MP Anna Baluch. Law and

11:51:58 | Justice club Here you go, Mr. MP

11:52:15 | Ziel, the building directive, the Council of the European Union approved the

11:52:21 | Building Directive without any objection from the Polish side, the Deputy Minister of Finance, who was present at this council on Friday, was not against the introduction of this element of

11:52:30 | the Green Deal. What does the Building Directive involve, namely abolition of gas heating, what’s more, all buildings will have to have

11:52:40 | photovoltaics and a heat pump. What does

11:52:46 | this

11:52:52 | mean ?

11:53:01 | building directive, it will be an additional tax

11:53:07 | that will hit small household budgets How high will the tax be, why Poland

11:53:13 | She did not protest because countries such as Italy, Hungary expressed loud opposition,

11:53:19 | but the Polish government did not speak out on this matter, it is reprehensible to represent Poland in the international arena and one can only guess what this means

11:53:29 | maybe it is the result of negotiations and consent to release funds from the KPO this is

11:53:34 | a really unfavorable decision that will translate into households we have

11:53:39 | an increase in VAT on food from July in the State Treasury Poles’ budgets are smaller bases what

11:53:48 | happened on April 12 is the introduction of the green deal no longer any opposition from Poland

11:53:55 | Thank you Thank you very much, Madam MP, I am now inviting Mrs. Barbara Bartusz, Law and Justice Club Here you go, Madam

11:54:04 | MP, Dear Sir, the march

11:54:12 | to commemorate the victims of the Smolensk disaster and the Katyn Massacre took place on

11:54:18 | Wednesday, April 17, this is the eve of the 14th anniversary of the funeral of the late

11:54:23 | President of the Republic of Poland. We started the Polish Lech Kaczyński and his wife Maria with a Holy Mass concelebrated

11:54:32 | during the sermon, the parish priest Stanisław Ruzel said that we were to be

11:54:38 | the Bible that others read, we had to live like this and Our example was a model for

11:54:44 | other people to follow, such a model for us was the life of our

11:54:49 | heroes, the brutally Polish elites murdered by the Soviets in the spring

11:54:56 | of 1940 as

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